Squats

Doggy · 09-06-2008, 08:14 PM

Sassy & all other female BB; I have a question?
Working with Jen to pack on some mass for next season, so we are going to train heavy, less frequent and move to a 4 day split with basic movements.
She has never squatted in her training, so I want to show her the best method for building up her quads.
Do you recommend regular back squats in the rack or should she be doing more parellel squats in the Smith Machine. She does do Front Squats in the smith sometimes now.
My goal is more mass but really want those quads to sweep better for next season.
Thanks for any suggestions.

sassy69 · 09-06-2008, 08:43 PM

Front squats are great - don't take them out. But full back squats are a foundation lift. It wasn't really until last year that I started doing good squats - I've done most of my leg work on leg press due to back issues earlier in life. Full range squats - mind you, at the weight that doesn't compromise form - goe a long way. Its done wonders for my really tight IT band (related to the back thing). The form is criitical. I would use everything at your disposal - not just one. Each has a purpose.

NubianBeauty · 09-06-2008, 08:47 PM

In complete agreement will sass. Since she hasn't squatted before start light to get the form down then increase the weight... but get that form right first.

RagingBull666 · 09-06-2008, 09:26 PM

Dude, seriously!!! Get out of the smith machine for squats!! Free squats!! Smith machines are good ONLY for hanging gear on!! FREE SQUAT!! SS, RB

JoeD · 09-06-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RagingBull666

Dude, seriously!!! Get out of the smith machine for squats!! Free squats!! Smith machines are good ONLY for hanging gear on!! FREE SQUAT!! SS, RB

co-sign.

she never squatted before!?!?!?!?

jaleena · 09-06-2008, 09:53 PM

Yep. I tried squatting in a Smith. I failed. I can't recommend it to anyone...

sassy69 · 09-06-2008, 10:44 PM

The Smith is good for things where you want a little balance/support but free squats force you to provide your own balance for starters. Though there's always discussion about it, the "stop at parallel" also puts a lot of stress on your knees when you stop and reverse motion instead of going all the way down. Its a functional strength move. And it will work those quads & hams like nothing else.

Here's some stuff to focus on that sweep: T-Nation.com | Bulk Up, Cut Up: Quads and Tri's

Big Machine · 09-07-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleena

Yep. I tried squatting in a Smith. I failed. I can't recommend it to anyone...

Ditto with Jaleena. I failed. Squats feel horrible for me on the Smith.

Doggy · 09-07-2008, 09:29 AM

Thank you ladies & gents...& RB too!

She will be learning to squat properly this week and we'll see how she does.

RB, by best gym buddy is a multiple National Record holder in all three basic power moves, so you can bet I get my ass handed to me in the rack...but I must admit I do sneak away & do front squats & vertival squats in the Smith now and then. But I am no power lifter so I don't feel too bad

Thanks all,

sassy69 · 09-07-2008, 03:23 PM

If the Smith you have is a straight vertical ROM, that might be something to use to help get an idea of motion for a full range squat. Ideally the bar doesn't move from that vertical plane. The Smith constrains your motion but it would also give that little extra idea of how a really good squat would be executed in that vertical plane. I find focusing on balancing in the middle of my feet at the arch (vs toes or heels) helps to me from pitching forward or backward. Also ensure that the motion is coming from the ham / quad & not your back.

But otherwise I would start working w/ the bar. To warm up for that full range I do sets of 20 w/ no weight (bodywt), then hold a 10lb plate, then a 25 lb plate. Then I go to the bar - do a WU set w/ that and start moving up w/ more plates.

Another insteresting effect is if you do a set of bodywt squats BEFORE you do the weighted set (like a super set), it seems "easier" and lets you get the stance in your mind, practice it & then go do.

jenscats5 · 09-07-2008, 09:36 PM

Definitely agree on adding the free squats + the front squats.....

Doggy · 09-07-2008, 11:20 PM

Thanks ladies...sent her the T nation article to get her ready!

whiteknight · 09-09-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassy69

The Smith is good for things where you want a little balance/support but free squats force you to provide your own balance for starters. Though there's always discussion about it, the "stop at parallel" also puts a lot of stress on your knees when you stop and reverse motion instead of going all the way down. Its a functional strength move. And it will work those quads & hams like nothing else.

Here's some stuff to focus on that sweep: T-Nation.com | Bulk Up, Cut Up: Quads and Tri's

THanks!!! That's a good article!!

matt1990 · 09-09-2008, 05:43 PM

I tried the smiths w/ front squats and its just not happening lol....But thats my opinion lol

Matt~

dirty~d~ · 09-11-2008, 01:06 AM

I love the arc that my quads get from front squats. I wish I had started using them long ago.

Doggy · 09-28-2008, 06:44 PM

Update:
So Jen squatted in the rack for the first time three Sundays ago...as I suspected she picked it up like a champ.
Last Sunday I trained her; for her work sets she used a 45 on each side, perfect ATF form, and I know she had more. (8 reps each set)
Today she finished with a set of (8 reps) with #165 again not sacrificing the form.

She competed at 110 lbs in June and today she weighed 132 w/ ab's.
Her genetics are amazing...clean bulk till after the new year.

canecorso · 09-29-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RagingBull666

Dude, seriously!!! Get out of the smith machine for squats!! Free squats!! Smith machines are good ONLY for hanging gear on!! FREE SQUAT!! SS, RB

I would go with the bull on this one.....before I got injured I was doing the smith squats, 666 advised me to do "free" I did them and loved them, I will never go back to the smith.....

09-06-2008, 08:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Doggy Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 887 Rep Power: 30122	Squats Sassy & all other female BB; I have a question? Working with Jen to pack on some mass for next season, so we are going to train heavy, less frequent and move to a 4 day split with basic movements. She has never squatted in her training, so I want to show her the best method for building up her quads. Do you recommend regular back squats in the rack or should she be doing more parellel squats in the Smith Machine. She does do Front Squats in the smith sometimes now. My goal is more mass but really want those quads to sweep better for next season. Thanks for any suggestions.

09-06-2008, 09:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
RagingBull666 I'm an Epic Asshole Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Peoria and Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,679 Rep Power: 271379	Dude, seriously!!! Get out of the smith machine for squats!! Free squats!! Smith machines are good ONLY for hanging gear on!! FREE SQUAT!! SS, RB __________________ Try not Do or do not There is no try Yoda That which does not kill us makes us STRONGER - Friedrich Nietzsche "So what we'll be calling on is blunt force trauma. Let's start building some hurtin bombs." Rocky www.azapf.com http://www.prowriststraps.com/store http://www.andersonpowerlifting.com http://www.prowriststraps.com/jr_bol...n_powerlifting

09-06-2008, 09:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
jaleena I can has yoke pls? Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: master class in doing it wrong Posts: 443 Rep Power: 121620	Yep. I tried squatting in a Smith. I failed. I can't recommend it to anyone... __________________

09-07-2008, 09:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
jenscats5 Some Phase of Irritated Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Propagating some felonious BS Posts: 3,815 Rep Power: 108079	Definitely agree on adding the free squats + the front squats..... __________________ Peanut Butter is a RIGHT, not a privilege! To Cook is to Create, and to Create well is an act of integrity and faith. Chicken....tastes like candy if candy were a chicken.

09-09-2008, 05:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
matt1990 Faithful to the KinG Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: MT Posts: 1,097 Rep Power: 94653	I tried the smiths w/ front squats and its just not happening lol....But thats my opinion lol Matt~ __________________ "Whoever acknowleges me beforemen, I will also aknowledge him before my father in heaven. But whoever disowns be before men, I will disown him before my father in heaven." - Matthew 10:32-33

09-06-2008, 08:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
sassy69 Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 7,560 Rep Power: 347519	Front squats are great - don't take them out. But full back squats are a foundation lift. It wasn't really until last year that I started doing good squats - I've done most of my leg work on leg press due to back issues earlier in life. Full range squats - mind you, at the weight that doesn't compromise form - goe a long way. Its done wonders for my really tight IT band (related to the back thing). The form is criitical. I would use everything at your disposal - not just one. Each has a purpose.

09-06-2008, 08:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
NubianBeauty Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 8,473 Rep Power: 117142	In complete agreement will sass. Since she hasn't squatted before start light to get the form down then increase the weight... but get that form right first.

09-06-2008, 10:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
sassy69 Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 7,560 Rep Power: 347519	The Smith is good for things where you want a little balance/support but free squats force you to provide your own balance for starters. Though there's always discussion about it, the "stop at parallel" also puts a lot of stress on your knees when you stop and reverse motion instead of going all the way down. Its a functional strength move. And it will work those quads & hams like nothing else. Here's some stuff to focus on that sweep: T-Nation.com \| Bulk Up, Cut Up: Quads and Tri's

09-07-2008, 03:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
sassy69 Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 7,560 Rep Power: 347519	If the Smith you have is a straight vertical ROM, that might be something to use to help get an idea of motion for a full range squat. Ideally the bar doesn't move from that vertical plane. The Smith constrains your motion but it would also give that little extra idea of how a really good squat would be executed in that vertical plane. I find focusing on balancing in the middle of my feet at the arch (vs toes or heels) helps to me from pitching forward or backward. Also ensure that the motion is coming from the ham / quad & not your back. But otherwise I would start working w/ the bar. To warm up for that full range I do sets of 20 w/ no weight (bodywt), then hold a 10lb plate, then a 25 lb plate. Then I go to the bar - do a WU set w/ that and start moving up w/ more plates. Another insteresting effect is if you do a set of bodywt squats BEFORE you do the weighted set (like a super set), it seems "easier" and lets you get the stance in your mind, practice it & then go do.

09-07-2008, 11:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
Doggy Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 887 Rep Power: 30122	Thanks ladies...sent her the T nation article to get her ready!

09-11-2008, 01:06 AM	#15 (permalink)
dirty~d~ Kill that shit! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Ring of Fire Posts: 308 Rep Power: 138843	I love the arc that my quads get from front squats. I wish I had started using them long ago. __________________ I lift heavy things and giggle like a school girl. Ieiunium, vilis, facilis

09-28-2008, 06:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
Doggy Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 887 Rep Power: 30122	Update: So Jen squatted in the rack for the first time three Sundays ago...as I suspected she picked it up like a champ. Last Sunday I trained her; for her work sets she used a 45 on each side, perfect ATF form, and I know she had more. (8 reps each set) Today she finished with a set of (8 reps) with #165 again not sacrificing the form. She competed at 110 lbs in June and today she weighed 132 w/ ab's. Her genetics are amazing...clean bulk till after the new year.

09-29-2008, 05:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
Big Sky Guy Join Date: Fe