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Thread: Will HCG restore my sperm count while on cycle?

  1. #1
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    Default Will HCG restore my sperm count while on cycle?

    Well, I can't exactly call it cycle since I never come off (and am not about to). Anyway, after having been on for years, will a dosage of HCG while remaining 'on' restore my sperm count? No, I don't want to have kids. I'm just curious.

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    Its definitely different for different people but short answer, yes. Ask Rico. He knows quite a bit about it.

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    The answer is, "It depends." Some people produce sperm even when on heavy cycles. Others need a long recovery, but do recover. Some may never recover even with HCG. My hrt doc made me sign a consent form stating I knew the risk of possibly becoming sterile from treatment.

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    resides in a nanny state HUMONGOUS's Avatar
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    isn't hmg better for sperm production?
    if you don't stand up for who you are, you risk becoming a nobody. HUMONGOUS '09

    you are allowed to kill yourself with cigarettes and alcohol, but not allowed to regulate your homonal balance for improved health, well-being and longevity....wtf?

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    Actually, HCG is an LH analog and simply mimics LH in the testes.

    LH, and the action it takes, is only one component of fertility. FSH is also crucial for the actual development of sperm.

    The issue is HCG alone will simply act as LH and will likely end up doing the OPPOSITE of what you're after because it will trigger the negative feedback loop when your testes produce spikes of T as a response to it (and this T converts to E). The brain then jumps in to try and reach an equilibrium by slowing down GnRH signaling to the pituitary, causing LH and FSH numbers to drop - just as if one were on TRT.

    The answer? Clomid!

    Using a SERM to trick the hypothalamus into believing that estrogen (and therefore testosterone) is low will cause it to signal the pituitary gland to go to work and pump out LH & FSH in an attempt to raise T & E.

    If you've ever had bloodwork done while on clomid, you'd see LH and FSH shoot up pretty high. Even on low dose clomid (25mg ED) my LH was over the top of the range by several points (this was from an LH that was practically 0 previously).

    HMG is also thought to better for sperm production because it actually contains LH and FSH extracted from the urine of postmenopausal women whereas HCG simply acts as LH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tical View Post
    Actually, HCG is an LH analog and simply mimics LH in the testes.

    LH, and the action it takes, is only one component of fertility. FSH is also crucial for the actual development of sperm.

    The issue is HCG alone will simply act as LH and will likely end up doing the OPPOSITE of what you're after because it will trigger the negative feedback loop when your testes produce spikes of T as a response to it (and this T converts to E). The brain then jumps in to try and reach an equilibrium by slowing down GnRH signaling to the pituitary, causing LH and FSH numbers to drop - just as if one were on TRT.

    The answer? Clomid!

    Using a SERM to trick the hypothalamus into believing that estrogen (and therefore testosterone) is low will cause it to signal the pituitary gland to go to work and pump out LH & FSH in an attempt to raise T & E.

    If you've ever had bloodwork done while on clomid, you'd see LH and FSH shoot up pretty high. Even on low dose clomid (25mg ED) my LH was over the top of the range by several points (this was from an LH that was practically 0 previously).

    HMG is also thought to better for sperm production because it actually contains LH and FSH extracted from the urine of postmenopausal women whereas HCG simply acts as LH.
    this is not accurate bro. I was shooting complete blanks and the ONLY drug I used, which restored sperm count in full (and I now have a beautiful daughter), was HCG. I was on 7500-10,500iu/week. HCG has some FSH actibity as well. While minimal, its still there.

    Do you have stock in clomid or something? I always see you promoting it as a magic pill. My doc put me on clomid first and it did almost nothing for me.

    The answer to this question is that there is no answer because everyone is different. Some people maintain full fertility despite almost undetectable LH and FSH. Some people are slightly impacted, and others become azoospermic.
    Self admitted Yohimburn ES addict
    HIGH DOSE VAR = TREN minus the side effects

    i poop on clen, EQ and nolvadex.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10492633

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597031

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18348701

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9364247

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    Super Moderator MR. BMJ's Avatar
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    swole, what AAS are you on right now?
    "No researcher has made a human bigger than a dumb-shit bodybuilder."---Dan Duchaine (12/18/97)


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    Quote Originally Posted by ricorico View Post
    this is not accurate bro. I was shooting complete blanks and the ONLY drug I used, which restored sperm count in full (and I now have a beautiful daughter), was HCG. I was on 7500-10,500iu/week. HCG has some FSH actibity as well. While minimal, its still there.

    Do you have stock in clomid or something? I always see you promoting it as a magic pill. My doc put me on clomid first and it did almost nothing for me.

    The answer to this question is that there is no answer because everyone is different. Some people maintain full fertility despite almost undetectable LH and FSH. Some people are slightly impacted, and others become azoospermic.
    Hah, nah man no stock in clomid. The reason you see my hyping up clomid here and there is because it is one of the only drugs that actually get your brain to do the work.

    HCG doesn't do this. HMG doesn't do this. They just act directly on the cells/tissues involved. This isn't a problem of course (as your case shows).

    You'll hear my chime in about clomid for PCT or issues like this where I personally feel the brain could do a better job managing these things. There is more than one way to skin a cat here. It's just a matter of preference I suppose. I like to think that we aren't totally ruined from using AAS - drugs like clomid do provoke the brain responses we've suppressed using AAS.

    One of the primary reasons those of us that use AAS have fertility issues is because of low amounts of LH/FSH (in response to negative feedback). Restore those and theoretically your situation should improve - no matter how it's done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tical View Post
    Hah, nah man no stock in clomid. The reason you see my hyping up clomid here and there is because it is one of the only drugs that actually get your brain to do the work.

    HCG doesn't do this. HMG doesn't do this. They just act directly on the cells/tissues involved. This isn't a problem of course (as your case shows).

    You'll hear my chime in about clomid for PCT or issues like this where I personally feel the brain could do a better job managing these things. There is more than one way to skin a cat here. It's just a matter of preference I suppose. I like to think that we aren't totally ruined from using AAS - drugs like clomid do provoke the brain responses we've suppressed using AAS.

    One of the primary reasons those of us that use AAS have fertility issues is because of low amounts of LH/FSH (in response to negative feedback). Restore those and theoretically your situation should improve - no matter how it's done.
    youre not restoring normal pituatary function with clomid in the presence of exogenous testosterone. The negative feedback loop while "on" is not blocked by clomid use. If it was, we would all use clomid while on and there would be no such thing as PCT.

    Also, he doesnt plan to come off, which to me implies that in the event that he would like to conciecve, he would opt for the most expedient way, so as to get back on. CLomid is not the fast track to fertility that the coadministration of HMG/HCG is. Granted, using hcg/hmg is not restoring pituatary function, rather supplementing it. But for someone who plans to stay on for life, why bother trying to reboot pituatary function?
    Self admitted Yohimburn ES addict
    HIGH DOSE VAR = TREN minus the side effects

    i poop on clen, EQ and nolvadex.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10492633

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597031

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18348701

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9364247

  10. #10
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    Actually, you're wrong there. I've used clomid while on cycle and it functions similar to HCG in respect to keeping the testes from atrophy and keeping LH/FSH numbers reasonable (although not necessarily "high"). While androgens do play a significant role, estrogen is the primary mediator of the HPTA. This is why people are able to raise their T over the top of the normal range while using clomid. Testosterone is testosterone whether endogenous or exogenous. If androgens were the only mediator of the negative feedback loop then the minute clomid began raising LH it would essentially prevent itself from working once T began rising but this isn't the case. However, if one was taking a very strong androgen other than testosterone this may be different. I've only tested while on T and anavar.

    Either way, you're probably right that HCG/HMG would most likely be the best case scenario if one was seeking a fast track to fertility in order to conceive (versus just trying to get things back to normal forever).

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    Quote Originally Posted by tical View Post
    Actually, you're wrong there. I've used clomid while on cycle and it functions similar to HCG in respect to keeping the testes from atrophy and keeping LH/FSH numbers reasonable (although not necessarily "high"). While androgens do play a significant role, estrogen is the primary mediator of the HPTA. This is why people are able to raise their T over the top of the normal range while using clomid. Testosterone is testosterone whether endogenous or exogenous. If androgens were the only mediator of the negative feedback loop then the minute clomid began raising LH it would essentially prevent itself from working once T began rising but this isn't the case. However, if one was taking a very strong androgen other than testosterone this may be different. I've only tested while on T and anavar.

    Either way, you're probably right that HCG/HMG would most likely be the best case scenario if one was seeking a fast track to fertility in order to conceive (versus just trying to get things back to normal forever).
    im not saying androgens are the sole factor in the negative feedback loop. Your right in that estrogen is actually a more significant factor. But the fact remains,. many people use clomid throughout, come off, and are still shut down. The benefits arent pronounced enough to suggest it prevents the negative feedback loop. That is misleading. It can "help" slow suppression. Its not stopping it
    Self admitted Yohimburn ES addict
    HIGH DOSE VAR = TREN minus the side effects

    i poop on clen, EQ and nolvadex.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10492633

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597031

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18348701

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9364247

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR. BMJ View Post
    swole, what AAS are you on right now?
    Test E, 500mg/wk

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    resides in a nanny state HUMONGOUS's Avatar
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    love it when knowledgeable guys get in a spirited, respectful, back and forth. everyone profits from that. props tical and rico.
    if you don't stand up for who you are, you risk becoming a nobody. HUMONGOUS '09

    you are allowed to kill yourself with cigarettes and alcohol, but not allowed to regulate your homonal balance for improved health, well-being and longevity....wtf?

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    I agree very informative thread.. I've been on cycle for a while but with no Clomid.. I do feel better when on clomid, whether that translates to anything is beyond me... It seems like the best option is just HCG/Clomid together , not one or the other

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