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Thread: Anadrol vs. Dbol

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    Default Anadrol vs. Dbol

    The Great Oral Debate: Anadrol vs. Dianabol
    By Gavin Kane

    For many years, a great debate has raged over which oral is superior for mass gains, and two of them have stood the test of time; dianabol and anadrol. The debate has continued, arguing which of the two is superior, yet no conclusive evidence has proven one better than the other. People respond to each one differently, some swearing by dbol and some swearing by anadrol. Before we declare one the winner, I am going to go over a bit of history and chemical structure on both products.

    Anadrol (oxymetholone) was first made available in the 1960ís by Syntex. It is very effective at increasing red blood cell production and was promising for treating severe cases of anemia. With the advent of newer and more advanced drugs such as Erythropoietin, which have less androgenic side effects, Anadrol was discontinued. New studies in AIDS/HIV patients revealed Anadrol was particularly effective at reducing wasting symptoms so it was re-released in the late 1990ís.

    Oxymetholone is a derivative of dihydrotestosterone, which in theory means it should not convert to estrogen. Since it does not aromatize but still causes gynecomastia in some users, there are other pathways by which it converts. After looking at studies on AIDS patients, I found that it may convert by actively activating the estrogen receptor, so this is a product that would need an anti-estrogen such as Nolvadex.

    Dianabol (methandrostenolone) was first made in 1956 by John Zieglar of Ciba fame. Dianabol has been one of the most popular oral steroids of all time, exploding in popularity in the 1970ís with bodybuilders and football players and expanding into all avenues of athletics during the 1980ís. It somewhat waned during the 1990ís with the steroid control act, but was hot again in the early 2000ís with reproduction in mass quantities by Mexican labs and underground labs.
    Methandrostenolone is a derivative of testosterone and hence will convert to estrogen. Gyno will be a concern for sure, in almost all users, whereas only less than 25% have problems with Anadrol. Again water retention will be a problem, usually due to the estrogenic properties.

    Both products will have similar androgenic side effects, which include; acne, water retention, oily skin, male pattern baldness, and increased body hair growth. Both drugs are c17 alpha alkylated, therefore liver protection will be necessary, especially when combining the two.

    So we come to the premise of this article, Anadrol vs. Dianabol. Why, the great debate over which product to take? They work on different pathways, have similar side effects you will have to combat, and both are liver toxic. So why is there a debate over which is better and which one should you take? Well, as I stated earlier, different people have different responses to each product. Many people, including myself, find high doses of Anadrol to be too much to handle in trade of the results you get. With this product, I have an extreme loss of appetite, massive water retention, and overall aches and pains and headaches.

    On the other hand, when I take Dianabol, I get a general sense of well-being, good but not great size gains, and the ability to keep eating. It sounds like I should keep taking Dianabol and drop the Anadrol, right? Wrong. I get massive male pattern baldness from Dianabol, which I do not experience from Anadrol. I have an increase in blood pressure levels at doses that are high enough to match my gains from Anadrol, and I have to shorten my cycles because of the massive dosages I take to get good gains. So in all, I get some side effects from each that I would like to avoid, while still retaining the great benefits that I can only get from each product.

    Anadrol is well known for its ability to cause massive size and strength increases, and as we all know, a stronger muscle has to become a bigger muscle with enough calories to feed it. Dianabol gives me large, quality muscle gains without as much water retention as Anadrol. So what is the compromise? Do I take one during one cycle and then the other product during my next cycle?

    The answer is no to both. There is no need to short change yourself gains in either department when you can have your cake and eat it too. I am not alone in my assessments of both products. Most guys have similar issues of massive water retention, headaches and loss of appetite with Anadrol, and MPB and fewer gains with Dianabol comparatively. So, the best thing we can do is decrease our dosages of both products to cut down on side-effects and take them at the same time to increase the benefits.

    My recommendation is to take both products in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. Dianabol has been found to work much better for quality gains when taken in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. High doses have severe side effects in some users, a loss of all gains with cessation of the product because of the short cycle (4-6 weeks) and most of the aforementioned side-effects.

    Your dosages will be cycle history dependent but when I was at the peak of my career, I was taking cycles of 200mg Dianabol for 6 weeks per cycle, or 250-300mg Anadrol per 6 week cycle. In later cycles when I decided to combine the two products together, I was able to drop my Dianabol use to 50mg per day, and my Anadrol use to 100mg per day and because of the synergistic effect of the two products combined, the effect was similar to high doses of each but with none of the sides. There is something very synergistic when taking these two products together with just a simple cycle of testosterone and deca-durabolin.

    I would run my Anadrol cycles for 8 weeks at that dose and my Dianabol cycles for 10 weeks at that low dose with no liver toxic effects as proven by my quarterly blood tests. I did not have to take liver protectants, but I recommend them for most users. I no longer had to watch my blood pressure, my water retention was minimal compared to earlier cycles, and I was able to continue eating massive amounts of food because I did not experience appetite loss from a massive dose of Anadrol.

    I highly recommend on your next bulking cycle you try the following: A base cycle of test and deca, add in the Anadrol and Dianabol mix, and some Nolvadex. You will be able to control your water retention, liver toxicity, and other side effects by controlling your dosages. Your doses will vary from mine, but just adjust accordingly and run them for longer periods of time. You will be amazed at the simplicity of this cycle and yet the synergy is un-describable. Your gains will be far better than you have ever had when taking each product alone, your side effects will be less than if you were to take either product in higher doses, thanks to the different biochemical pathways. Everyone already knows that test and anadrol, and deca and dbol are very synergistic. Now combine all four in a cycle and watch yourself just blow up.

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    interesting...but i lost interest when he reccommended nolvadex be used alongside a progestin like anadrol

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    Peach eater Thread Starter Thread Starter MadMIck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricorico View Post
    interesting...but i lost interest when he reccommended nolvadex be used alongside a progestin like anadrol
    I dont agree with all of it, just thought it was a good read

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    Macro should be along to explain his position where he went wrong quoting that old study about anadrol not being a progestin and why you shouldn't use Nolva. He's been arguing this very thing for 7 years. Long before that was plagiarized, I mean written. Although I have never seen where he draws his position from. So that would be cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulter View Post
    Macro should be along to explain his position where he went wrong quoting that old study about anadrol not being a progestin and why you shouldn't use Nolva. He's been arguing this very thing for 7 years. Long before that was plagiarized, I mean written. Although I have never seen where he draws his position from. So that would be cool.
    what study did he quote?



    just as a note (since its mentioned)- just because something is DHT derived DOES not mean that it cannot have estrogenic metabolites (DHT does).

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    Chairman of the Board Ulter's Avatar
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    You're right he didn't quote it. He just copied what Llewellyn wrote. Llewellyn quoted the study but he, Kane, left it out.

    Les hormones anabolisantes du point de vue experimental. P.A. Desaulles. Helv. Med. Acta 1960 479-503

    I remember this...

    http://www.************.com/forum/st...dan-93830.html

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    ahhh... the memories...

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    anadrol has the same effects on progesterone synthesis as nortestosterone and other progestins.

    there really is no conclusive proof that anadrol is a progestin (unlike with tren, stan (mostly antagonist) and nandrolone). However that does not change that fact that it and/or its metabolites are almost certainly progestins.

    many 7alpha and 7 beta configured DHT derived drugs seem to have mixed agonist/antagonist activity at the PGR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha View Post
    anadrol has the same effects on progesterone synthesis as nortestosterone and other progestins.

    there really is no conclusive proof that anadrol is a progestin (unlike with tren, stan (mostly antagonist) and nandrolone). However that does not change that fact that it and/or its metabolites are almost certainly progestins.

    many 7alpha and 7 beta configured DHT derived drugs seem to have mixed agonist/antagonist activity at the PGR.
    but nolva use with anadrol would still be a bad idea, correct? being thats its metabolites are progestins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricorico View Post
    but nolva use with anadrol would still be a bad idea, correct? being thats its metabolites are progestins?
    yes. just because there is no conclusive proof (since no one is doing binding studies with anadrol) does not in anyway indicate that its not a progestin. All the indications, both effect and endocrine wise are that it (and/or its metabolites) IS a progestin.

    so the reccomendation still stands, do not use nolva with anadrol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha View Post
    yes. just because there is no conclusive proof (since no one is doing binding studies with anadrol) does not in anyway indicate that its not a progestin. All the indications, both effect and endocrine wise are that it (and/or its metabolites) IS a progestin.

    so the reccomendation still stands, do not use nolva with anadrol.
    werd. thought so

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    So are people using cabaser with anadrol? Is it recommended?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thecomeback View Post
    So are people using cabaser with anadrol? Is it recommended?
    yes
    yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha View Post
    yes
    yes
    But cabaser blocks prolactin and not progesterone.
    I thought DHT opposed progesterone?
    Scott

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    On a side note... I find it scary that I'm now able to understand and follow these discussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fite4$ View Post
    On a side note... I find it scary that I'm now able to understand and follow these discussions.
    huh? too many big words for ya?? lol, jk
    Self admitted Yohimburn ES addict
    HIGH DOSE VAR = TREN minus the side effects

    i poop on clen, EQ and nolvadex.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10492633

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597031

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18348701

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9364247

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    I think we're glossing over his originally high and insane doses of both. He wonders why he had issues? So newbs, please do not think you can out smart everyone by using these amounts. 100 to 150 mg of drol a day is PLENTY as is 50 mg day of dbol. I will disagree and say they should not be used together but I have no proof as to why not, just personal experience.

    BPP

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    Quote Originally Posted by hackskii View Post
    But cabaser blocks prolactin and not progesterone.
    I thought DHT opposed progesterone?
    progesterone and dht modulate each other, DHT derivatives are often progestins or anti-progestins (both can cause issues)

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha View Post
    progesterone and dht modulate each other, DHT derivatives are often progestins or anti-progestins (both can cause issues)
    But why block prolactin when it is not even the hormone being elivated.
    Blocking prolactin can put LH receptors at risk and compromise immune system.
    Why block it when it is not a factor, progesterone potentially is?
    Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by hackskii View Post
    But why block prolactin when it is not even the hormone being elivated.
    Blocking prolactin can put LH receptors at risk and compromise immune system.
    Why block it when it is not a factor, progesterone potentially is?
    because inhibiting prolactin works, progestins generally elevate prolactin (in many cases even causing galactoreah), though in some cases they just amplify its activities.

    blocking progesterone is not necessarily helpful and comes with its own issues (in point of fact antagonists can cause the same, or worse issues, as agonists). Progesterone is a big modulator, part of the reason why progestins (which are rarely all agonist or all antagonists and quite often have very different binding and transcription- as well as NON PgR mediated impacts).... are quite a handful.

    as to your concerns, they may exist in the literature but in practice they cause little issue.

    probably not a good idea to use high dose cabergoline during PCT, but other wise even very low levels of prolactin are all that needed. Lot like estrogen that way-- you can inhibit it a whole lot before you have issues (though which estrogens are inhibited and to what extent- as mentioned elsewhere and previously, estrone v. estradiol, can yield very different outcomes)

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    as a note- GH and other ligands can also bind to and activate the PRL (so you really have to suppress a lot of hormones before you have relative complete inhibition of PRL activity)

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha View Post
    as a note- GH and other ligands can also bind to and activate the PRL (so you really have to suppress a lot of hormones before you have relative complete inhibition of PRL activity)
    MAc, do you have a degree in Biology or some other science>? one smart mofo
    Self admitted Yohimburn ES addict
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    i poop on clen, EQ and nolvadex.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10492633

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597031

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18348701

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9364247

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    He's a doctor fo sho..

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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha View Post
    because inhibiting prolactin works, progestins generally elevate prolactin (in many cases even causing galactoreah), though in some cases they just amplify its activities.

    blocking progesterone is not necessarily helpful and comes with its own issues (in point of fact antagonists can cause the same, or worse issues, as agonists). Progesterone is a big modulator, part of the reason why progestins (which are rarely all agonist or all antagonists and quite often have very different binding and transcription- as well as NON PgR mediated impacts).... are quite a handful.

    as to your concerns, they may exist in the literature but in practice they cause little issue.

    probably not a good idea to use high dose cabergoline during PCT, but other wise even very low levels of prolactin are all that needed. Lot like estrogen that way-- you can inhibit it a whole lot before you have issues (though which estrogens are inhibited and to what extent- as mentioned elsewhere and previously, estrone v. estradiol, can yield very different outcomes)
    I asked Swale (Dr. John) about this very question some time ago and this is his responce:
    Quote Originally Posted by SWALE
    you might want to share with the other Bro that it makes no sense to take dostinex with tren, etc. inhibiting natural production has no benefit while supplementing a hormone's agonist. the body does that on its own, if necessary, and you risk lowering prolactin too much. this compromises immune function and also puts the LH receptors at risk.

    HPTA-suppression from deca definitely is due to progestogenic effects there.


    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha View Post
    as a note- GH and other ligands can also bind to and activate the PRL (so you really have to suppress a lot of hormones before you have relative complete inhibition of PRL activity)
    We were not talking about HGH now were we?
    To this I agree with the prolactin gyno issue with HGH, and the use of cabaser.

    But to the progesteronic effects of tren, deca, I would suggest proviron, or masteron for the progestin/progesterone effects of those sides, as DHT opposes progesterone.

    One has to remember though that sides are dose dependant.....
    Scott

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    swale is just plain wrong, but thats not entirely new. Not to mention that he seems to think that progestins are PRL agonists (which they are not).

    cabergoline IS effective, you can just ask anyone thats tried it. In truth the mechanism of why it works is not as clear as desired, but that does not change the fact that cabergoline is far and away the best preventative and treatment option when progestins are involved.

    just take a look at the people on this forum alone, the response to cabergoline and its positive impact on progestin induced/aggravated gyno is almost universal.

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