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Thread: Question/advice/help from the Mods about a PERSONAL question concerning my mother

  1. #1

    Default Question/advice/help from the Mods about a PERSONAL question concerning my mother

    First, let me say if the post appears inappropriate then I assume the mods will just delete it, but as I say in the extended question below, I respect the knowledge of endrocrinology and medicine for the most part more from most of the mods here than mosts doctors I know. That being, said, here's my question after the dotted line, let me just give you alittle backgroud before the question of my mom's medical history. Keep in mind I'm not asking you to make a diagnosis, just some advice or suggestions as if this was your mother. If this was you mother, what would you do? I am exposing myself personally alittle bit which I would nornmally do with friends,it is a bit uncomfortable, but I truely need your help. So, here it is.

    I know alot of you might just think or say, "just take her to the doctor and have him write her the scripts, and she'll be fine'. With my mom, I'm not sure how to articulate this but that would be very difficult, not only finding a good doc, but getter her there, and then, getting her to listen. I hope some of you might see where I am coming from, so at least for the short term it seems like there might be something that can be done until I can make the necessary arangements with finding a good doc and getting her there etc. Which is another reason why I'm writing this post...

    -------------


    Patient: 60+sYOF, 102lbs 5’8,
    Chronic emphysema/bronchitis
    Borderline personality
    disorder (which makes
    her an impossible patient to
    deal with)
    EX-Alcoholic for 30+ years,
    but no cirrhosis, and retains
    to some degree a functioning
    liver
    Surprisingly no she never got
    esophageal varicose veins
    which is common in alcaholics
    Habitual smoker for 40+ years
    Four severe heart attacks
    History of DVT(Deep Vein
    Thrombosis)
    Blames all her problems on
    allergies and is in complete
    denial on all her problems.
    Deaf with a type ‘A’ Personality
    No illicit drug use, ever
    No diabetes at all
    No cancer, as of yet
    No other diseases and/or
    problems.


    Reasons: Lets just say that my child hood wasn’t the best.I don’t know who my father is, but now that I Married with a son, and perhaps it’s because my mom is menopausal, she is the nicest and the The most pleasant person to be around. She is kind, generous, self-sacriaficing, compassionate, considerate, everything I hoped my mother would have been, but is now. Now at 28, it does feel alittle late to be making any changes, but honestly this is the first time in my life I am actually having feelings for my mother, which is basically my only family left. My wife is the woman I’ve always wanted, but her family is completely neurotic so she is basically my son’s only grandmother and extended family. So, for the first time in my life just when I want my mother to be around, she looks and acts like she is going to have another heart attack and drop dead. So, I made up this short plan, and I beg, beg, and beg some more, implore and beg again for you educated intelligent endocrine folks to give me advice on how to keep her around for a few more years, or as much as possible. She is the worst, and I mean worst patient. Although, she has medicare, the medications she can get and the doctors she can go to are limited. At some point I’m going to have to drag her to a different doctor again, and I don’t expect his arrogant ‘better than thou’ syndrome will do much for me/her. At least order baseline blood work and the minimal unscheduled meds that are harder to get. But, again I don’t expect much, I have had a lot of bad experiences with doctors. Which, at times, usually ends up with the doctor telling me “You are not a Doctor, so stop acting like one” after I have quoted studies and handed him journals supporting my statements for care for my mother. So, I’m sure some of these substances that I’m going to have to get through sources in the black market, which I understand and I am fine with. So, please take a look and give me your best-educated advice on what you would do in my situation and this was your mother with these problems. In many ways, I trust your advice more than most doctors. So, I will be carefully reading any posts that are submitted. Thanks again for taking the time to read this post and hopefully give a helpful suggestion or supportive comment for or against my ideas.


    THE PLAN FOR SOME DEGREE OF LIFE EXTENSION


    Possible Medications
    N=Currentlly taking
    P=Possible/potential future consideration/use

    (N)5mg Warfarin or ASA daily(PM only)

    Purpose: For blood thinning purposes since she has a history of four heart attacks in the past 20 years, the last one being about 8 years ago. Seems to be what’s keeping her alive with her heart attack history.

    (F)1 tab 5mg Dianabol Daily(AM only)

    Just a thought due to her weight loss and progressive emaciation, from not eating due to chronic smoking, however it could also serve as a degree of estrogen since whatever is aromatised could stimulate estrogen receptors and cause some degree of regeneration. I know docs used to prescribed 5mg daily to women in the 1950s for hormone replacement and weight gain. Since it is so short acting with such a sort half life the ultimate risks of severe masculinization problems would be minimal.

    (F)1 tab 5mg Oxandrolone? Weekends?

    (Just a thought due to her weight loss and progressive emaciation, from not eating due to chronic smoking )

    (F)1 tab 25mg DHEA ED(AM only)

    The woman is old, has a history of chronic alcoholism, which she doesn’t drink anymore, and has been smoking for 30 years but only 1 pack a day. However, that one pack has cost her 4 heart attacks and beginning stages of emphysema. I don’t attribute the heart attacks to genetics. Since, no one else in the family has had them, and it is a fact that you are 410% more likely to experience a heart attack if you smoke 1 pack a day for 5 years or longer.

    (F)Progesterone cream (14 days only)AM
    Obviously progresterone is a necessary regenerative hormone for the female body, I remember reading in the 1950s when they tried just giving estrogen to women as hormone replacement without progestins their endometrial and cervical cancer rates increased dramatically. Makes sense, the hormone is there and there for a reason.

    (F)Estriol?

    Studies show of the three estrogens, Estradiol, Estrone, and Estriol, Estriol is the more common hormone amoung normal and healthy young women by 90%(*) compared to estradiol with very small percentages and estrone being represented also in small percentages and from higher fat ratios.

    (F)Deprenyl

    Studies have shown that Deprenyl increases IGF-1 blood levels, thus indicating at least some degree of either growth horomone stimulation or IGF-1 stimulation or release in the liver.

    (F)6 clomid dose 300mg for 1 day end of the month

    (for cholesterol and estrogen stimulation)
    Research Bill Roberts has either done or made reference to seems to indicate that this estrogenic isomer not only stimulates the release of ovum, but has a beneficial effect on cholesterol profiles. Which is one of the reasons why women are less likely to die from a heart attack then men, due to their estrogen levels, or so they say. At any rate, clomid has a long half life and a single day dosing of 300mg seems like it would at least do some good for her cholesterol HDL/LDL profiles.


    (F)1 tab daily Chlordiazeproxide

    stimulates hormonal release/ also doubles as antixiolyic This is the only anti-anxiety medication which I have read that does not interfere and increase enzymes that aromatise hormones negatively, like versed, valium, xanax ect. Rather, this antianxiety which is also a benzodiazepine is the only one that has been shown to actually not interfere with hormonal levels in men and women. With my mother, she does everything loud, gets angry at the slightest things, and argues just to argue, and I think this medication would greatly benefit her condition without further causing any other problems.


    (F)Antinausea PRN(meclincizine)

    She complains of nausea at times, again blames it all on allergies. I thought either this or phenergan would help here.

    (N)Allergy med. PRN(diphenhydramine)

    Funny thing is, I don’t think her allergies are really that bad.

    (F)1 tab daily Zyban/Wellbuttrin

    I have heard this is very useful with people attempting to quit smoking, and all it is actually is well-buttrin, but renamed for smoking cessation. And, with her borderline personality disorder perhaps it would help there as well.

    I remember forcing her to go to a psychiatrist one time paying for it myself, and ultimately she just told the psychiatrist what he wanted to hear, and he did nothing, in spite of what I described she is like. One thing also, she is smart, but never had an education past 3rd grade, and educated herself on everything she needed to know.


    Interesting Note: According to family members, she has been the nicest, the most sane, and the most enjoyable to be around when preganant with me, now granted both progesterone and estrogen levels in pregnancy are several several times their normal baseline, but this does give a clue on what her neurochemistry problem may be and is a testament to the power of hormones on the brain and psychological disorders.



    Supplements

    (Currently not taking anything below)

    Glutamine caps ED/AM
    There is one study that shows if given in the AM at high levels, it increases HGH levels

    2/pills Creatine pills or drink ED/AM
    Studies have shown creatine helps with heart attack victims pump blood easier

    1/500mg NAC EOD
    Liver aid/powerful antioxidant

    1/200mg ALA EOD
    EFA,Liver aid/powerful antioxidant

    1/pill DMAE EOD
    Powerful antioxidant

    1 Cal-D-Gluc ED PM?
    Liver aid/antioxidant….but doesn’t’ this interfere with absorbtion of oral AAS? I believe I remember reading a post by GW on this, stating that due to it’s metabolic pathway in the gut, it would interfere with oral AAS.


    1 tab Multivitamin ED
    Common sense, she take none, drinks coffee and eats very very little

    B-12 injectable
    Isn’t this supposed to be beneficial for anti-aging?

    1 tab Coral Calcium??? ED
    Is there any real benefit from this, does this help at all, the infomercial sounded good, but the ‘Barefoot’ guy I noticed doesn’t have a degree in anything. Thoughts?


    Herbs....optional/Beneficial?

    1/tab Vitex Agnus ED(1st 14 days)
    Supposed to stimulate progesterone secretion in women?/ And help with PMS
    I know it raised my testosterone levels higher and faster than clomid did, and is also
    A popular method of treatment for andropause with naturopathic physicians

    1/tab Black Cohosh ED(2nd 14 days)
    Supposed to stimulate estrogen secretion in women?Same thing, just the opposing hormone, trying to simulate nature’s cycle by cycling in a 28 day routine

    1/tab Astragulus ED
    Health, immune stimulus

    1/tab CLA ED
    EFA/Beneficial

    1Maitake/Shitake ED
    Effective anti-cancer agent/preventative/powerful antioxidant(precaution)

    1 tab CoQ10 ED

    1 tab SAMe
    Has been found to be beneficial for joints, and mental conditions

    Celluar Forte/IP6-Phytopharmica's
    (every 3 months)
    Very Effective anticancer agent/preventative

    Soy milk daily
    More phytoestrogens to help out



    -This is what I put together and what I could think of that could help, improve quality of life, help with anabolism, improve any regeneration of tissue, slow down aging ect. I don't know much about these sort of issues, and these are just Ideas, I hope anyone of the mods or educated professsionals int this area can help me out with ideas, advice, and/or suggestions.

    Thanks for your time for reading my post.

    Very Best Regards

    X


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101

    [This message was edited by MisterX on 07-30-2003 at 10:19 PM.]

    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


  2. #2
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    I am sorry for your mother's illness I have emailed a few people to come here to try and help you

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    Keep it simple. Forget the d-bol and Ox and everything else. You'll put her in a grave quicker messing with all that shit.

    T-gel (just enough for replacement in a post-men female.)

    DHEA 25 mg/d is fine.

    Basic vitamin/min supplement, low in beta-carotene. Beta-carotene will accelerate lung cancer in smokers.

    Grape Seed extract (200 mg/d)
    r-ala (100 mg/d) and NAC (600 mg/d) are fine.
    Vit E 400 IU (mixed tocopherols). Vit C 1 - 2 grams/d

    Fish Oil 1.5 - 2.0 grams of DHA and EPA combined total, not just total fish oil.

    Borage oil (GLA) about 500 mg. Want to keep a 1:4 or 2:4 ratio of GLA to (DHA + EPA).

    Clean diet, as much fresh fruits and veg as possible and low fat (mostly olive oil). Whatever exercise she can do (i.e. walking).

    Good luck.

    W6

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    Thanks for that w6

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by W6:
    Keep it simple. Forget the d-bol and Ox and everything else. You'll put her in a grave quicker messing with all that shit.

    T-gel (just enough for replacement in a post-men female.)

    DHEA 25 mg/d is fine.

    Basic vitamin/min supplement, low in beta-carotene. Beta-carotene will accelerate lung cancer in smokers.

    Grape Seed extract (200 mg/d)
    r-ala (100 mg/d) and NAC (600 mg/d) are fine.
    Vit E 400 IU (mixed tocopherols). Vit C 1 - 2 grams/d

    Fish Oil 1.5 - 2.0 grams of DHA and EPA combined total, not just total fish oil.

    Borage oil (GLA) about 500 mg. Want to keep a 1:4 or 2:4 ratio of GLA to (DHA + EPA).

    Clean diet, as much fresh fruits and veg as possible and low fat (mostly olive oil). Whatever exercise she can do (i.e. walking).

    Good luck.

    W6<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    why not any hormones? Aren't hormomones the source for anabolism and regeneration in tissue, and as you get older isn't that part of the aging process? And, won't adding hormones and stimulating anabolism benefit her? At least that seemed logical to me.... Thanks for your reply again..


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace&amp;apos;s Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


  6. #6
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    The DHEA and T-Gel (Test) are hormones.

  7. #7
    archive_macrophage69alpha
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    while not the most popular recommendation:
    XYREM (GHB)
    -----------------------
    HGH

    coral calcium is JUNK

    Fish oil HIGH DHA/EPA

    WATER... WATER.. thats a lot of supps.. gotta help the kidneys, not to mention that water is quite purifying

    will post more.. upon reflection..

    MP

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    T-gel and DHEA are hormones. Convert peripherally into E. GH is an option, but watch the sides in older people.

    W6

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NubianBeauty:
    The DHEA and T-Gel (Test) are hormones.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    My fault, tgel and dhea are hormones, I didn't pose my question properly.

    Thanks for your reply, but I should have rephraised that question more properly, I was specifically considering the dianabol, isn't the low dose and considerable short half life lead to it safety of use?

    I read in the 50's docs used to prescribe dbol as a form of horone replacement back when CIBA was producing it legally in the US. The eventually stopped due to the random complaints of masculinization symptoms, but overall from what I remember reading the dianabol had an overall beneficial effect if only taken once daily upon rising.

    Logically it seems as if 5mg of dbol was given in the AM, then any masculinazation symptoms would be minimal, and according to the 'morning dbol study) single dosing Dbol has minimal if no negative impact on liver values. Granted she has a alcaholic history, but I was wondering what you though process was that you thought the dbol was dangerous.

    Please don't take any of my questions the wrong way, I mean them with the most respectly, I'm trying to understand hormones and beneficial exposure of substances to the female physiology which I do not completely understand.

    The other suggestions are great advice, but if you get some spare time can you explain why there is a need for a ratio to the DHA/ fish oil ect. Good information, and thanks for the suggestions.

    Thanks again for your help, but if you get some time, could you elaborate on why you think single/low/AM/dosing androgen/dbol use would be detrimental to her female physiology, I would really clear up some confusing ideas in my head. Thank again for all you help.


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace&amp;apos;s Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


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    MisterX I like the name

    I'm Mr.X ...nice to meet you

    that's why the ladies have been saying " I followed MisterX's CKD manual thinking that's me" in reality they followed Mr.X's CKD manual

    nice meeting you

    Mr.X
    owner: www.massmonsters.com

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    NO you should not use dbol for a women.


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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
    NO you should not use dbol for a women.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That was my thoughts also. But, I don't have the experience that everyone else here has.


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace&amp;apos;s Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr.X:
    MisterX I like the name

    I'm Mr.X ...nice to meet you

    that's why the ladies have been saying " I followed MisterX's CKD manual thinking that's me" in reality they followed Mr.X's CKD manual

    nice meeting you

    Mr.X
    owner: [URL=http://www.massmonsters.comhttp://www.massmonsters.com&lt;HR&gt;[/URL]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good for you.
    ...........IMPOSTER!
    Notice registration dates?

    I didn't come here registering as 'E3' now did I? Where is the originallity in the world. What's next, a new member called 'Ultra'? But, I there's no need to be immature about it. A name is a name.


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101

    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace&amp;apos;s Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
    NO you should not use dbol for a women.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So, what would you suggest if you were in my position, what would you do, or give to your mother?


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace&amp;apos;s Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MisterX:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr.X:
    MisterX I like the name

    I'm Mr.X ...nice to meet you

    that's why the ladies have been saying " I followed MisterX's CKD manual thinking that's me" in reality they followed Mr.X's CKD manual

    nice meeting you

    Mr.X
    owner: [URL=http://www.massmonsters.comhttp://www.massmonsters.com&lt;HR&gt;[/URL]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good for you.
    ...........IMPOSTER!
    Notice registration dates?

    I didn't come here registering as 'E3' now did I? Where is the originallity in the world. What's next, a new member called 'Ultra'? But, I there's no need to be immature about it. A name is a name.

    http://www.anabolicfitness.net/images/mrx.jpg
    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    WOW, grumpy man...

    Sorry, I forgot your magesty registered way earlier - forgive my stupidity King X...

    I've been around probably 1/2 your age son...so please don't condescend.

    Mr.X

  16. #16

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    MisterX, the post by Mr.X was just a clarification. He is a good bro, and he has been a part of the boards for a long time. That's why I asked if you were from the e-lite fitness diet board, as well as the MassMonsters site when you posted in the anabolic forum. He is a MOD at both.

    I asked because I thought maybe people were confusing the two of you, OR worse, thought maybe you were an "imposter" of him, which 'may' have been the reason you were not receiving emails in return. That's all he was talking about in his post. He is the author of "Mr.X's CKD manual" in case you are wondering what he was talking about.

    As for you questions regarding your mother, I would follow the advice given above, and keep it simple as W6 has mentioned.

    BMJ

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MR. BMJ:
    MisterX, the post by Mr.X was just a clarification. He is a good bro, and he has been a part of the boards for a long time. That's why I asked if you were from the e-lite fitness diet board, as well as the MassMonsters site when you posted in the anabolic forum. He is a MOD at both.

    I asked because I thought maybe people were confusing the two of you, OR worse, thought maybe you were an "imposter" of him, which 'may' have been the reason you were not receiving emails in return. That's all he was talking about in his post. He is the author of "Mr.X's CKD manual" in case you are wondering what he was talking about.

    As for you questions regarding your mother, I would follow the advice given above, and keep it simple as W6 has mentioned.

    BMJ<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mr.BMJ, thank you for the comments...

    Actually, to clear things up, I own www.MassMonsters.com , I'm an elite mod. on ************ and I administrate Mesomorph.
    I resigned from Anabolex.com as the admin, so that's no longer.

    Mr.X

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MisterX:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
    NO you should not use dbol for a women.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So, what would you suggest if you were in my position, what would you do, or give to your mother?

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If I was going to give my mother AS it would be oxandrolone. In fact, my 50 year old mother in law loved it when she used it. And definately P Seven.


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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr.X:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MisterX:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr.X:
    MisterX I like the name

    I'm Mr.X ...nice to meet you

    that's why the ladies have been saying " I followed MisterX's CKD manual thinking that's me" in reality they followed Mr.X's CKD manual

    nice meeting you

    Mr.X
    owner: [URL=http://www.massmonsters.comhttp://www.massmonsters.com&lt;HR&gt;[/URL]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good for you.
    ...........IMPOSTER!
    Notice registration dates?

    I didn't come here registering as 'E3' now did I? Where is the originallity in the world. What's next, a new member called 'Ultra'? But, I there's no need to be immature about it. A name is a name.

    http://www.anabolicfitness.net/images/mrx.jpg
    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    WOW, grumpy man...

    Sorry, I forgot your magesty registered way earlier - forgive my stupidity King X...

    I've been around probably 1/2 your age son...so please don't condescend.

    Mr.X<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Didn't I say 'a name is a name'? And didn't I also say there is no need to be immature about it? If you are twice as old as me or whatever then you would understand 'imposter' is a 'fecicious' comment.

    Why do you keep giving me you 'resume'? I don't care what you own, or the great things you have written. You may be a good bro and thats fine. Personally, if I come to a place and my 'handle' is taken, I use something else out of courtesy and originality. But, that's me. And, if you are clarifying things, than that's fine also. And, my comments were made to jokingly poke fun and be fecicious. Now if you were here longer, own more, wrote more or whatever fine. Let me re-iterrate, 'a name is a name, and there is no need to be immature about it.' I'm dropping the whole stupid subject, why don't you.


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


    __________________________________________________

    Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

    Horace&amp;apos;s Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101


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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MR. BMJ:
    MisterX, the post by Mr.X was just a clarification. He is a good bro, and he has been a part of the boards for a long time. That's why I asked if you were from the e-lite fitness diet board, as well as the MassMonsters site when you posted in the anabolic forum. He is a MOD at both.

    I asked because I thought maybe people were confusing the two of you, OR worse, thought maybe you were an "imposter" of him, which 'may' have been the reason you were not receiving emails in return. That's all he was talking about in his post. He is the author of "Mr.X's CKD manual" in case you are wondering what he was talking about.

    As for you questions regarding your mother, I would follow the advice given above, and keep it simple as W6 has mentioned.

    BMJ<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thank you for you help, clarification and advice. It just seems like as you get older, and hormones drop off, there would need to be at least something to take its place. If a cell gets no messages(hormones), then activity(anabolism) increases, correct? I think W6 is right, keeping it simple is a good way to go. But, Ulter has a good point as well.


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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I was going to give my mother AS it would be oxandrolone. In fact, my 50 year old mother in law loved it when she used it. And definately P Seven.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Wouldn't you think a woman would benefit more from the aromatized estrogen from dianabol, then the unaromatizing androgen in oxandrolone in the abscence of any estrogens? This is considering she is not on any HRT yet.


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    How are her estrogen levels? I know that too little is bad, but excess is also just as bad. MS/Retropump can say more than I can on this subject...by far.

    If you go to www.chemicalmuscle.com she has some great readings on estrogen on the StrongChick boards. I'd HIGHLY suggest a poke over there and check them out.

    I'd also suggest the Oxandrolone route as well. If her E levels are low, then she could always get a script to raise these levels or use T-gel. If her levels are not low, then I wouldn't try to raise them. Actually, T-gel may be a better route than Ox...W6 likes it, and I usually agree with him on everything...very, very knowledgeable guy.

    I'm glad the battle of the X's is over, you both are an asset to these boards. I've learned from both of you.

    BMJ

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    I agree you really need to keep it simple. I'll bet you'd never get her to take even a tenth of the stuff you were originally thinking of.....just too many pils, injections and creams to deal with 24/7.

    Oxandrolone is her best bet to prevent her from wasting away. T-Gel is good, and I think P7 is also pretty good...the pregnenlone can act as a precursor to almost all the other sex hormones, and it has a metabolite of DHEA in it as well. Otherwise plain old DHEA and maybe some oral pregnenlone to boot.

    Good nutrition is her best bet overall. In addition to the supps and diet Wilson6 metnioned, you could throw in some GLA.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by retropump:
    I agree you really need to keep it simple. I'll bet you'd never get her to take even a tenth of the stuff you were originally thinking of.....just too many pils, injections and creams to deal with 24/7.

    Oxandrolone is her best bet to prevent her from wasting away. T-Gel is good, and I think P7 is also pretty good...the pregnenlone can act as a precursor to almost all the other sex hormones, and it has a metabolite of DHEA in it as well. Otherwise plain old DHEA and maybe some oral pregnenlone to boot.

    Good nutrition is her best bet overall. In addition to the supps and diet Wilson6 metnioned, you could throw in some GLA.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Thanks for the advice, it's starting to make much more sense. I wish I knew her estrogen levels, but getting this stubborn old woman to the doc and convincing him to get her a hormone panel has been the combination of problems in the past.

    The ox advice makes much more sense now with retro's elaboration.

    That's why I wanted to go the Bmarket route first because I know it going to take a length of time to get the right doc, get him to do the right tests, and get the right meds, and get enough funds to cover it or argue with the insurance companies, etc. But, in the mean time, at least with as you suggested the ox and DHEA/PREG, she can atleast benefit from some anabolism, instead of her gradual decline.

    But, would you give pregnaolone, dhea, or both? And, generally for the above stats I listed at the start of the post, what general dosages would you start at?

    Also, if you could tell me this one last thing,
    what supps would you give a individual in this condition that you would feel would be most important? Meaning, I think you are right, getting her to take a bunch of pills is going to be a problem. So, Perhaps I'll have to start with the most important ones.

    Which ones would you feel those are? What are the most important supps that you feel you would give you own mother if she was in the same condition in the with the least possible amount of pills?

    What are you thoughts on clomid? Wouldn't that stimulate some estrogenic activity and have a beneficial effect on HDL/LDL profiles? The dose I suggested would be only 300mg one day a month?

    BTW, what is P7?

    Thanks for your reply, Retropump.


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    W6's recommendations look as good as you're gonna get. 25mg per day DHEA, plenty of EFAs in the form of fish oils and GLA, protein and good quality multi, plus lots of fresh fruits and veggies.

    Don't bother with the Clomid

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