Workout routine

[bluetwistedsteel]

Originally Posted by headliner

Someone showed me this bill starr routine... slighty different..

ww.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/manrodt4.htm
(add another w in front of that address, won't let me post link, to low post count)

Monday – Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Bench – 5 sets of 5
Powercleans – 5 sets of 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups

Wednesday – Light Day
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Incline Bench – 4 sets of 5
High Pulls – 4 sets of 5
Sit-ups – 3 sets

Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Powercleans – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Weighted Dips – 3 sets of 5-8
Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each


Hows that look? Or am I taking a step back in my progress of throwing all those wrist curls etc out the window. Because with this one I do get an arm day in there, nothing to big, and I 2 days to rest for it before my Heavy day on Monday.

I like this overall although I would eliminate the ab work. No need. You're going to get plenty of abs doing squats and deads. I could count on 2 hands the number of times I've done abs in the past 3 years and my core is probably the strongest comparative area for me. Also, I'm not a big proponant of "light" days. Go heavy or at least relatively heavy and trust your age and diet to help you recover quick enough.

[headliner]

Perfect, this is what I'll do then, really like the logic behind this, good explanation of what to do on that link.

"On Friday, the first four sets are the same as they were on Monday. The fifth set, done for three reps, should be a jump of about 2.5% over what you did for your fifth set on Monday."

Thank you very much for direction, it'd have taken me another year to bench 2 plates doing what I was doing. I can't wait to see the results of this program, will post my progress on this thread in a couple of weeks.

Curious, that you in your Av?

[bluetwistedsteel]

Originally Posted by headliner

Perfect, this is what I'll do then, really like the logic behind this, good explanation of what to do on that link.

"On Friday, the first four sets are the same as they were on Monday. The fifth set, done for three reps, should be a jump of about 2.5% over what you did for your fifth set on Monday."

Thank you very much for direction, it'd have taken me another year to bench 2 plates doing what I was doing. I can't wait to see the results of this program, will post my progress on this thread in a couple of weeks.

Curious, that you in your Av?

Looking forward to seeing your progress. And yes, that's me in my avi. I'm a little leaner right now and about 5lbs lighter.

[getjacked]

Originally Posted by bluetwistedsteel

I like this overall although I would eliminate the ab work. No need. You're going to get plenty of abs doing squats and deads. I could count on 2 hands the number of times I've done abs in the past 3 years and my core is probably the strongest comparative area for me. Also, I'm not a big proponant of "light" days. Go heavy or at least relatively heavy and trust your age and diet to help you recover quick enough.

no disrespect intended but i disagree. the point of the starr routine is that it has periodization planned into it, even if it's not very complicated. squatting, pushing and deadlifting heavy 3x a week is probably not the best idea for the vast majority of people. the starr routine has been tried and tested and is very effective.. its been used on athletes that have better genetics IRT recovery than anybody on this board and they still use heavy, light, medium type scheme (or something similar).

i also think that ab work is fine to do. i remember i was msising 675 pulls over and over and it was due to weak abs. i started doing ab pulldowns 2x a week and side bends 1x a week and pulled 700 about 2 moths after. i dont think theres any harm in doing some weighted ab work.

other than that i agree with your posts

[bluetwistedsteel]

Originally Posted by getjacked

no disrespect intended but i disagree. the point of the starr routine is that it has periodization planned into it, even if it's not very complicated. squatting, pushing and deadlifting heavy 3x a week is probably not the best idea for the vast majority of people. the starr routine has been tried and tested and is very effective.. its been used on athletes that have better genetics IRT recovery than anybody on this board and they still use heavy, light, medium type scheme (or something similar).

i also think that ab work is fine to do. i remember i was msising 675 pulls over and over and it was due to weak abs. i started doing ab pulldowns 2x a week and side bends 1x a week and pulled 700 about 2 moths after. i dont think theres any harm in doing some weighted ab work.

other than that i agree with your posts

I feel you on the light mid heavy deal. Whaqt I was reccomending is a relatively short time period - 90 days. If he goes heavy 3x per week for 12 weeks I think he'll be fine and he'll grow. Based on his posts he doesn't seem to be into the power lifting scene so I was just giving him advice on pure growth in a short amount of time. The deal with abs is just a personal belief for me. My abs are relatively good and very good for my age (41). I never do any direct ab work BUT, I squat as heavy as I can and I dead lift until I'm on the verge of puking. I believe that is what's given me good ab development.
I do like the Starr routine and think it's effective and very well though out. For the poster, I was really trying to get him off of the one body part per day and all of the fluff exercises. Core lifts are what count and even a body builder REALLY doesn't need more IMO. Heavy back, chest and shoulder work will = big arms. That's why I don't do any direct arm work. I just look at what I see (does that make any sense? lol). I don't see dudes with jacked shoulders and small arms and I don't see dudes with huge arms and underdeveloped shoulders. AND I've never seen anybody that has kick ass abs that doesn't squat unless it's a skinny dude. If this kid takes your advice or mine OR finds something in between he's going to get there. If he follows Muscle and Fitness he's going to spin his wheels.

	ASS Nelson Montana

[Pan]

Hmm...Bluetwistedsteel, you've had some great points in here, and have made very valid contributions. However I must agree with Getjacked. Going heavy 3 times a week with the same 4 exercises done everyday (deadlift especially) is going to be very tough to do, 12 weeks is plenty of time to burn yourself out. Programs like the 5x5 and 3x5 have either alternating days or days with different exercises which varies the loading on particular muscle groups. I'm not advocating cookie cutters for everyone but for the purposes of beginners (which IMO the original poster still is) simple routines that focus on progression and the meat and potatoes exercises will work great.

Headliner, you won't overtrain by squatting 3x week. It's all a matter of conditioning. Your body is used to blasting your legs with high volume throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at it once a week and doing nothing for 7 days until the next session. Multiple times per week with the volume spread out over each session will take about 1 or 2 weeks to get used to, but as with anything, the body will adapt and you won't be sore going into every workout.

You wont need 5 days per week, you wouldn't be able to do it. 3 days a week is fine to start off with, you can make great gains off that for months and months before you need to think about adding more volume in the form of another day. Like I said cookie cutter isn't the be all and end all, but I really do believe the 3x5 is a very simple program that allows for great advances in strength to be made. Volume is controlled, and progression is made every workout.

I'm doing it myself right now and there's nothing better to get your strength up. Once I stall I'm going to do some pseudo periodisation and change the reps to 3x8, still keep the progression going every session, then after 3 weeks or so I'll change it up to 3x3 with less volume and heavier weight. All other varibles kept the same. I really do believe that while it is simple it is also very versatile and you can milk a lot of gains from it before you need to think about trying a different routine altogether.

The worst thing you can do is chop and change constantly. Choose what you want to do, and stick it out, if things plateau tweak it a little, but don't change the whole routine

[Evidence]

Originally Posted by Pan

I'm doing it myself right now and there's nothing better to get your strength up. Once I stall I'm going to do some pseudo periodisation and change the reps to 3x8, still keep the progression going every session, then after 3 weeks or so I'll change it up to 3x3 with less volume and heavier weight. All other varibles kept the same. I really do believe that while it is simple it is also very versatile and you can milk a lot of gains from it before you need to think about trying a different routine altogether.

Pan, when you switch from a 3x5 to a 3x8, does the weight stay the same? You mentioned if you feel you might be stalling, do you make this change to challenge yourself without dropping the weight just going for a few more reps? Then going to a 3x3 with less volume and heavier weight? I was just trying to make sure I read this right that's all? Hope all is well boss.

[Pan]

No. The weight would be scaled back to accomodate the higher reps. I mentioned that it's like pseudo-periodisation. It's similar to the volume and intensity phase of the advanced 5x5 template. Instead of increasing the sets from 3x5 to 5x5 I'd increase the reps and lower the weight, sort of serving as a deload, and a bit more hypertrophy. Then increasing the weight a few kilos/pounds and peak with 3x3 for a few weeks and shifting the focus to more neural work. After this I'd try to get back on track with 3x5.

I just don't feel it's necessary to immediately jump onto the intermediate stages of the 5x5 without totally exhausting the 3x5 template. Good to see a pic up my man, nice to put a face to the user

[Evidence]

Thanks. I wasn't questioning your rationale there at all, I just think that i was on two days with minimal sleep and was having a hard time processing you rpost. Thanks for clearing up what you already said.

[Photobear]

Twisted,

Thanks for all the info. Damn you have got me seriously pumped up about going after this routine. Quick, intense, effective, what's not to like.

Thanks for stoking the fire.

PB