After reading the Best Supplement thread, which Waxy Maize product is best?

[TedKoppelspegleg]

Seems like there are some copies of another and ones that are just garbage?

Thanks

[canecorso]

I like ON's 2 1 recovery also glyco maize

[JG1]

The best

genr8 Vitargo
professional supplements pure karbolyn.

[ashley2212]

I like the True Protein waxy maize. Cheap and easy

[NubianBeauty]

Originally Posted by ashley2212

I like the True Protein waxy maize. Cheap and easy

Ditto!

[JG1]

Originally Posted by ashley2212

I like the True Protein waxy maize. Cheap and easy

He's asking about the Best.

TP has no idea or doesn't want anyone to know the molecular weight of there product yet it's marketed for it's high molecular weight. Email Dante and ask for the MW and he'll laugh at you.

TP's WM can be corn starch for all we know.

Only Vitargo has studies to back up the high Molecular weight claims.

[ashley2212]

Interesting. I was not aware.

[WonderWoman]

I need to change my supps LOL....

[TedKoppelspegleg]

Originally Posted by JG1

He's asking about the Best.

TP has no idea or doesn't want anyone to know the molecular weight of there product yet it's marketed for it's high molecular weight. Email Dante and ask for the MW and he'll laugh at you.

TP's WM can be corn starch for all we know.

Only Vitargo has studies to back up the high Molecular weight claims.

This is why I havent gotten the TP brand

[JG1]

good thread on it

WHAT IS THE BEST WAXY MAIZE PRODUCT OUT THERE? - Muscular Development Forums

[MR. BMJ]

Here are some quotes by various people on this topic:

Lyle McDonald:

it won't matter unless you happen to bloat alot with dextrose/malto

the improvment in glycogen synthesis with WMS is only over the first couple of hours. this could be crucial if you're an athlete who has two hard workouts within 4-6 hours of one another

over the length of a 24 hour carb-load, total intake matters way more than type

Lyle McD:

WMS is only superior in the first 2-4 hours or so.

In regards to the GI rating confusion....most believe that the low GI's that Justin Harris and others are stating are due to the possibility that they are using a RESISTANT STARCH, instead of a WMS. Amylose is a resistant starch because the body cannot break it down for absorption, thus it travels through like fiber and ends up in the toilet. If no starch is absorbed, then no effect will be present on the blood glucose/sugar elevels...GI rating. Here is some more interesting stuff from awhile back:

Lyle McDonald:

aaron made a comment a while back that they (TP and Justin Harris) had it confused with resistant starch

resistant starch is, a the name suggests, starch resistant to human digestino
it's low GI becuase the body doens't absorb it

great for diabetics

not WMS in the least

funny that in the HST therad, when absoltuely proven wrong by the science the guy just goes 'Well, have you used it' typically bro bullshit

In regards to the GI rating of Maltodextrin....

Aaron_F:

bear (grr) in mind that maltodextrin has not been officially GI tested...

PLEASE READ THIS THREAD (BOTH PAGES)::::
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info...2;t=13089;st=0

************************************************** ****

On the link above, please pay attention to the debate with Aaron_F. In his rebuttal to this:

No, WMS has LOW GI, generally around 40. Waxy maize is not a sugar, it's a starch and doesn't spike insulin. It passes into the bloodstream very quickly, taking with it the proteins you really need (BCAA's in my case).

He responded with:

Aaron_F:

now provide evidence that isnt stupid bro' logic

WMS is high GI

Waxy maize starch is a long chain of glucose molecules, and all digestible carbs are ultimately sugar.

The advantage of a large molecule is that for a given carbohydrate quantity you will achieve a much lower osmolality. This allows rapid uptake of the glucose molecules from the gastro intestinal tract, and rapidly raising blood glucose.

shall we go with the first waxy maize product on the market, vitargo.

"Other member":

What is the Glycemic Index GI of Vitargo?
Many people ask the glycemic Index of carbs in common.
A sports drink should have a high glycemic index, giving a rapid and easy accessible energy to the blood stream and this is the case of Vitargo. No exact value is known at the moment, but insulin and blood glucose values indicates the same GI as for maltodextrine(glucose polymer) ~137.

Aaron_F:

FAQ

Other guy:

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2000 Mar;81(4):346-51. Links
Muscle glycogen resynthesis rate in humans after supplementation of drinks containing carbohydrates with low and high molecular masses.

Aaron:

from the above paper, glucose concentrations following C (carb drink - vitargo) or G (glucose drink with a mix of dextrose and malto)




Wow, they look awfully similar, shouldnt vitargo have a lower glucose concentration during what basically amounts to a GI test.

GRAPH in LINK ABOVE: in fact in the text the authors state "Blood glucose and insulin concentrations in the C and G groups did not differ signifcantly at any point during the study as shown in Figs. 3 and 4."

so in fact, the blood glucose from waxy maize starch did not differ from glucose and maltodextrin, both of which are definately a high GI carbohydrate, as dextrose is the control substance that gives 100.

I wonder what that makes Waxy maize starch?

Aaron:

Except the research that you posted was with carbohydrates from the origonal Vitargo, supplied by Carbamyl in Sweden, or amylopectin from potato. Its also used by vitargo in advertising.

WMS is a source of amylopectin, which can also be sourced from whatever high amylopectin flour they have (like wheat, barley or maize), potato starch etc yada yada yada. It is a highly branched starch, which allows for a product to be low osmolality, while allowing multiple endings for acess for amylases, allowing quick hydrolysis and availability to the gastrointestinal transporters for uptake.

Um,

Its not amylose, its amylopectin.

this is not a great source, but it is from a starch reseller



WAXY corn (maize) is a corn variety with grains that have a waxy appearance when cut, and that contains only branched-chain starch. Waxy corn starch is over 99% amylopectin, whereas regular corn contains 72-76% amylopectin and 24-28% amylose. Amylopectin is a branched form of starch of high molecular weight, while amylose is a smaller unbranched or linear form of starch. Waxy corn is processed in wet milling to produce waxy cornstarch which slowly retrogrades back to the crystalline form of starch. It is grown to make special starches for thickening foods in particularly those that undergo large temperature changes in processing and preparation.

or maybe the great (sic) information from wikipedia

maybe from a manufacturers sales site? maybe

maybe cornproducts USA in their FAQ


Question 5
How do you determine whether a starch is made from regular corn or waxy corn?

Answer 5
All starches contain amylose and/or amylopectin. Regular corn starch contains 25% amylose and 75% amylopectin while waxy corn starch contains 100% amylopectin. When using a typical iodine staining technique, amylose stains blue while amylopectin stains reddish brown when viewed under a microscope. By using this method, waxy corn starch will appear reddish brown while regular corn starch will appear blue (blue color of amylose dominates reddish brown color of amylopectin).


hmm

The above quotes will make more sense if you click on the link provided above.

BMJ

[MR. BMJ]

Here is one of the studies that people have used for WMS:

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2000 Mar;81(4):346-51. Links
Muscle glycogen resynthesis rate in humans after supplementation of drinks containing carbohydrates with low and high molecular masses.

* Piehl Aulin K,
* Soderlund K,
* Hultman E.

Department of Medical Sciences, University of Uppsala/LIVI, S-791 88 Falun, Sweden.

The rate of muscle glycogen synthesis during 2 and 4 h of recovery after depletion by exercise was studied using two energy equivalent carbohydrate drinks, one containing a polyglucoside with a mean molecular mass of 500 000-700 000 (C drink), and one containing monomers and oligomers of glucose with a mean molecular mass of approximately 500 (G drink). The osmolality was 84 and 350 mosmol. l(-1), respectively. A group of 13 healthy well-trained men ingested the drinks after glycogen depleting exercise, one drink at each test occasion. The total amount of carbohydrates consumed was 300 g (4.2 g. kg(-1)) body mass given as 75 g in 500 ml water immediately after exercise and again 30, 60 ad 90-min post exercise. Blood glucose and insulin concentrations were recorded at rest and every 30 min throughout the 4-h recovery period. Muscle biopsies were obtained at the end of exercise and after 2 and 4 h of recovery. Mean muscle glycogen contents after exercise were 52.9 (SD 27.4) mmol glycosyl units. kg(-1) (dry mass) in the C group and 58.3 (SD 35.4) mmol glycosyl units. kg(-1) (dry mass) in the G group. Mean glycogen synthesis rate was significantly higher during the initial 2 h for the C drink compared to the G drink: 50.2 (SD 13.7) mmol. kg(-1) (dry mass). h(-1) in the C group and 29.9 (SD 12.5) mmol. kg(-1) (dry mass). h(-1) in the G group. During the last 2 h the mean synthesis rate was 18.8 (SD 33.3) and 23.3 (SD 22.4) mmol. kg(-1) (dry mass). h(-1) in the C and G group, respectively (n.s.). Mean blood glucose and insulin concentrations did not differ between the two drinks. Our data indicted that the osmolality of the carbohydrate drink may influence the rate of resynthesis of glycogen in muscle after its depletion by exercise.

BMJ

[Sylva]

Originally Posted by JG1

The best

genr8 Vitargo
professional supplements pure karbolyn.

This

GENR8

10 servings for $36.

Kind of a rip compared to other WM on the market.

[JG1]

Originally Posted by Sylva

This

GENR8

if so, ordering now, lol.

I love the genr8 vitargo. I can actualy feel my pump come back after drinking my PWO shake which is that, bcaa's and creatine.

It's expensive though...don't get it threw their website. If you want to try it go to GNC and get it and get a gold card which will knock 20% off.

	PureCEE PureCEE delivers increased strength, pump and muscular endurance without abdominal bloating or subcutaneous water retention often found with creatine monohydrate. PureCEE uses the finest and purest Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL.

[Sylva]

Originally Posted by JG1

I love the genr8 vitargo. I can actualy feel my pump come back after drinking my PWO shake which is that, bcaa's and creatine.

It's expensive though...don't get it threw their website. If you want to try it go to GNC and get it and get a gold card which will knock 20% off.

Was going to say, WTF @ $36 for 10 servings.

Thanks dude, always a big help.

	PureCEE PureCEE delivers increased strength, pump and muscular endurance without abdominal bloating or subcutaneous water retention often found with creatine monohydrate. PureCEE uses the finest and purest Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL.