Suave One/MidLife --

get456 · 02-25-2008, 10:03 AM

We had a discussion a while back about telecoms and what a real "republican" is...

I was looking around at Ron Paul videos and I found this one... basically pursuant to our conversation, this is exactly how I feel about our current government.

Discuss

YouTube - Ron Paul Video Fox doesn't want you to see

TheSuaveOne · 02-25-2008, 10:08 AM

I'll have to wait until I get home to listen to this. I'm at work and I try to stay off YouTube here.

get456 · 02-25-2008, 10:20 AM

No prob... I just really liked the vid and I thought you guys would appreciate it, it nicely summarizes how I feel... I thought we ended up with a good discussion before... I am not stirring it up by any means or intend a long winded debate, I just thought the video was to the point of my overall philosophy

LanT · 02-25-2008, 12:55 PM

I think Mick Wright put it best in his blog when he said, "Ron Paul is one of only a few members of Congress who always votes according to his principles, and truly believes in Constitutional limits on the power of government. On spending, on taxes, on freedom from an overbearing government, he’s great. I also agree for the most part with his take on foreign aid, and in always putting America first.

Where I disagree with Ron Paul, in domestic terms, is in his inability to compromise or rally anyone to his side to get anything accomplished. He’s a go-it-alone, all-or-nothing kind of guy. It’s admirable in a sense, but also unhelpful, to vote against every bill because it happens to fund a federal education plan, or because it contains a million dollar grant to Uganda. At a certain point, you have to vote on the best bill you can get; bills are never going to come out of Congress perfect. Because he will never bend, most of his votes are essentially meaningless and counter-productive.

On foreign policy and trade, I disagree totally with Ron Paul. He is an isolationist and is against free trade, while I believe that 9/11 calls for increased involvement (at least diplomatically) and more trade with other nations.

Some of Paul’s inability to bend spills over into defense and security issues, as well. He votes against bills that help Government detect and fight terrorism, arguing that they mean more government invasion of our privacy. A fair concern, to be sure, but ultimately unjustified in my view. For me, it reveals that Ron Paul has the right ideas but the wrong priorities, especially in our current fight against terrorism. I think his policies would make us less safe, more vulnerable, less able to detect and respond to terrorist groups.

I’ve read some of his articles and speeches, and he also seems to be a bit of a conspiracy nut. And so it doesn’t surprise me that the people supporting him most, at least around here, are the John Birchers, the folks who think 9/11 was an “inside job,” people who think everything they disagree with is “unconstitutional,” etc. These are folks I agree with 99%, but who consider me liberal.

No offense, though, if you like him. Because, like I said, he really does have some great qualities."

get456 · 02-25-2008, 01:10 PM

Good post LAN

solidspine · 02-26-2008, 04:33 AM

Once you determine self-employment is the only source of employment and China banking allows you to never claim income, and you subsequently never pay taxes you lose interest,

Self preservation --- Never pay taxes

TheSuaveOne · 02-26-2008, 04:42 AM

His isolation ism immediately soured me to his plank. That being said, he is hypocritical when complaining about government waste. He has had plenty of little earmarks put into bills for his constituents that the feds had no business funding.

Kabeetz · 02-26-2008, 05:06 AM

What could possibly isolate this country more than engaging in predatory foreign policy that is detested by even our closest allies and in which the concerns all other nation-states, and even our own citizens, is completely ignored?

LanT · 02-26-2008, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeetz

What could possibly isolate this country more than engaging in predatory foreign policy that is detested by even our closest allies and in which the concerns all other nation-states, and even our own citizens, is completely ignored?

Completely disengaging from the world for one. I agree that where we are now may not be ideal, but to swing to another extreme is an unwarranted overreaction.

get456 · 02-26-2008, 05:25 AM

I am an isolationist at heart... And at the very least I want to remove all foreign aid, used for funding programs like helping some tribal african survive 2 years longer with AIDS... wtf is the point of that spending?

Im very very far from a humanitarian, so to me it makes no sense. I believe in human value, for Americans. I do not believe we have any business trying to "save" anyone else... of course the Catch-22 is now that we have positioned ourselves in that role, to back away would cause a shit storm.

Kabeetz · 02-26-2008, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LanT

Completely disengaging from the world for one. I agree that where we are now may not be ideal, but to swing to another extreme is an unwarranted overreaction.

Even that would be less isolating, because that doesn't breed hate and contempt towards us, that simply breeds indifference.

I'd much rather be a sleeping giant rather than a lively retard.

midlifecrisis · 02-26-2008, 06:12 AM

I think during this time in history, with terrorists seeking us out here on American soil, the last thing we need to do is take on an isolationist, non-intervention foreign policy. I think Bush has it exactly right when he says that we must be present on their side of the world to stay on top of what they are up to and to track thier activities.

Maybe Im just cynical, but I dont think anyone can just waltz in and do away with the Fed Reserve and IRS, and I think its misleading of him to make it seem like such an easy undertaking. Becuase of that, I think he is being disingenuine and misleading voters. He damn well knows how complicated and drawn out those processes would be.

TheSuaveOne · 02-26-2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeetz

What could possibly isolate this country more than engaging in predatory foreign policy that is detested by even our closest allies and in which the concerns all other nation-states, and even our own citizens, is completely ignored?

The use of the word 'preditory' made me chuckle. Sure our forgein policy is meant to favor us, but why shouldn't it? Should it not look out for our best interests as a country?

TheSuaveOne · 02-26-2008, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

Maybe Im just cynical, but I dont think anyone can just waltz in and do away with the Fed Reserve and IRS, and I think its misleading of him to make it seem like such an easy undertaking. Becuase of that, I think he is being disingenuine and misleading voters. He damn well knows how complicated and drawn out those processes would be.

That's what is so funny about Obama. He seems to believe that by him walking into the White House as president, he is going to be able to start "change". LOL, yeah right. In what world?

get456 · 02-26-2008, 06:20 AM

*disclaimer* Nothing I say is intended as being achievable in less than 50 years or maybe ever ... that doesnt change the fact I like it

Kabeetz · 02-26-2008, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSuaveOne

The use of the word 'preditory' made me chuckle. Sure our forgein policy is meant to favor us, but why shouldn't it? Should it not look out for our best interests as a country?

Only when you have leaders who have the intelligence to comprehend what the long term best interest of the nation is.

Starting wars without reason and without foreseeable conclusion does not qualify.

PEACE is in our best interest. PEACE is the only way to prevent terrorism.

Bombs dropped just create bitter, mentally devastated children who want to avenge their family's deaths by any means necessary, including suicide.

TheSuaveOne · 02-26-2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeetz

Starting wars without reason and without foreseeable conclusion does not qualify.

Using false premises is a no no. You should have been taught that in Logic 101.

Kabeetz · 02-26-2008, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSuaveOne

Using false premises is a no no. You should have been taught that in Logic 101.

02-25-2008, 10:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
get456 Gold Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 737 Rep Power: 14996	Suave One/MidLife -- We had a discussion a while back about telecoms and what a real "republican" is... I was looking around at Ron Paul videos and I found this one... basically pursuant to our conversation, this is exactly how I feel about our current government. Discuss YouTube - Ron Paul Video Fox doesn't want you to see

02-26-2008, 06:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
midlifecrisis ROLL TIDE ! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: #1 IN THE NATION Posts: 3,731 Rep Power: 177735	I think during this time in history, with terrorists seeking us out here on American soil, the last thing we need to do is take on an isolationist, non-intervention foreign policy. I think Bush has it exactly right when he says that we must be present on their side of the world to stay on top of what they are up to and to track thier activities. Maybe Im just cynical, but I dont think anyone can just waltz in and do away with the Fed Reserve and IRS, and I think its misleading of him to make it seem like such an easy undertaking. Becuase of that, I think he is being disingenuine and misleading voters. He damn well knows how complicated and drawn out those processes would be. __________________ "It's awfully important to win with humility. It's also important to lose with it. I hate to lose worse than anyone, but if you never lose you won't know how to act. If you lose with humility, then you can come back better the next time." - Paul "Bear" Bryant

02-25-2008, 10:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
TheSuaveOne Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,133 Rep Power: 9528	I'll have to wait until I get home to listen to this. I'm at work and I try to stay off YouTube here.

02-25-2008, 10:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
get456 Gold Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 737 Rep Power: 14996	No prob... I just really liked the vid and I thought you guys would appreciate it, it nicely summarizes how I feel... I thought we ended up with a good discussion before... I am not stirring it up by any means or intend a long winded debate, I just thought the video was to the point of my overall philosophy

02-25-2008, 12:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
LanT On the AFBoard Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NE Posts: 1,184 Rep Power: 12042	I think Mick Wright put it best in his blog when he said, "Ron Paul is one of only a few members of Congress who always votes according to his principles, and truly believes in Constitutional limits on the power of government. On spending, on taxes, on freedom from an overbearing government, he’s great. I also agree for the most part with his take on foreign aid, and in always putting America first. Where I disagree with Ron Paul, in domestic terms, is in his inability to compromise or rally anyone to his side to get anything accomplished. He’s a go-it-alone, all-or-nothing kind of guy. It’s admirable in a sense, but also unhelpful, to vote against every bill because it happens to fund a federal education plan, or because it contains a million dollar grant to Uganda. At a certain point, you have to vote on the best bill you can get; bills are never going to come out of Congress perfect. Because he will never bend, most of his votes are essentially meaningless and counter-productive. On foreign policy and trade, I disagree totally with Ron Paul. He is an isolationist and is against free trade, while I believe that 9/11 calls for increased involvement (at least diplomatically) and more trade with other nations. Some of Paul’s inability to bend spills over into defense and security issues, as well. He votes against bills that help Government detect and fight terrorism, arguing that they mean more government invasion of our privacy. A fair concern, to be sure, but ultimately unjustified in my view. For me, it reveals that Ron Paul has the right ideas but the wrong priorities, especially in our current fight against terrorism. I think his policies would make us less safe, more vulnerable, less able to detect and respond to terrorist groups. I’ve read some of his articles and speeches, and he also seems to be a bit of a conspiracy nut. And so it doesn’t surprise me that the people supporting him most, at least around here, are the John Birchers, the folks who think 9/11 was an “inside job,” people who think everything they disagree with is “unconstitutional,” etc. These are folks I agree with 99%, but who consider me liberal. No offense, though, if you like him. Because, like I said, he really does have some great qualities."

02-25-2008, 01:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
get456 Gold Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 737 Rep Power: 14996	Good post LAN

02-26-2008, 04:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
solidspine Retired Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,622 Rep Power: 0	Once you determine self-employment is the only source of employment and China banking allows you to never claim income, and you subsequently never pay taxes you lose interest, Self preservation --- Never pay taxes

02-26-2008, 04:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
TheSuaveOne Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,133 Rep Power: 9528	His isolation ism immediately soured me to his plank. That being said, he is hypocritical when complaining about government waste. He has had plenty of little earmarks put into bills for his constituents that the feds had no business funding.

02-26-2008, 05:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kabeetz Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N.Y. Posts: 6,745 Rep Power: 205147	What could possibly isolate this country more than engaging in predatory foreign policy that is detested by even our closest allies and in which the concerns all other nation-states, and even our own citizens, is completely ignored?

02-26-2008, 05:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
get456 Gold Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 737 Rep Power: 14996	I am an isolationist at heart... And at the very least I want to remove all foreign aid, used for funding programs like helping some tribal african survive 2 years longer with AIDS... wtf is the point of that spending? Im very very far from a humanitarian, so to me it makes no sense. I believe in human value, for Americans. I do not believe we have any business trying to "save" anyone else... of course the Catch-22 is now that we have positioned ourselves in that role, to back away would cause a shit storm.

02-26-2008, 06:20 AM	#15 (permalink)
get456 Gold Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 737 Rep Power: 14996	disclaimer Nothing I say is intended as being achievable in less than 50 years or maybe ever ... that doesnt change the fact I like it