Training Feedback, please.

[T-Cake]

Monday I start a new 6-week rotation of a new 4-day split I wrote for myself.

For the last 6 months or so I've done all circuits lifting -- still heavy, but fast. Fat burning and growth inducing.

I'm changing this split to 4-days still... but 3 days will be circuits and 1 day my "heavy day".

Is this too much for a heavy day? I mean, I'd like to do all 5 things if possible (I should just call it the cage day, ha!), but I don't know if I should aim for 1 warm-up and 2 working of each... or 1 warm-up and 3 working... or a 5x5 of each.

The moves for heavy day are:
Pendlay rows
Straight-leg deads (SLDLs)
Rack pulls (from knee height)
Back squats (ass-to-floor, "ATF")
HammerStrength Iso-lateral Shoulder press

If I do the heavy day every Monday, then I don't lift again until Thursday so I think it's the best choice day so my CNS will have time to recover before I pick up a weight again.

Thoughts?

[sassy69]

;).........

[Blut Wump]

I'd suggest picking two or three exercises that are your main focus for the workout. They should be the ones you aim to make progress on and put the main volume into. The other exercises you'd then see as ancillary exercises or fillers.

Be careful with doing squats later in the workout. Squatting while fatigued can be perilous if you've already put a significant workload into the prior exercises. I notice that you don't have any pressing movements on your heavy day.

Edit:
Well, except for the press, that is. :d'uh:
I stopped reading once I saw "Hammer-Strength Iso". Maybe swap them out for some standing Military Presses or Push Presses.

[Fit Mum]

I agree, I think if you are to do this workout, you should do your squats first up.
Just my $0.02 worth. lol

[T-Cake]

I'd suggest picking two or three exercises that are your main focus for the workout. They should be the ones you aim to make progress on and put the main volume into. The other exercises you'd then see as ancillary exercises or fillers.

Be careful with doing squats later in the workout. Squatting while fatigued can be perilous if you've already put a significant workload into the prior exercises. I notice that you don't have any pressing movements on your heavy day.

Edit:
Well, except for the press, that is. :d'uh:
I stopped reading once I saw "Hammer-Strength Iso". Maybe swap them out for some standing Military Presses or Push Presses.
Great advice! I actually have lots of press work in the remainder of my week, but I might throw in some military standing presses as another filler if I want to. I tend to go moderately heavy with my circuit stuff too -- I just wanted to add to what I do now, change it up, etc. :)


I agree, I think if you are to do this workout, you should do your squats first up.
Just my $0.02 worth. lol
Awesome -- I'll probably squat 2nd because I need to get my body warmed up significantly, like my knees and hip flexors. I find it's made a huge difference to me. Thanks for the help :)

[Dragon Wolf]

Ok I have a stupid question, what are rack pulls? Sorry to change the subject, the workout looks good t-cake. I agree with Blunt W on the squat thing, do squats early in the workout.

[Blut Wump]

Rack Pulls are deadlifts but done inside a power rack, lifting the weight from the supports rather than from the floor. One can typically use more weight but over a reduced range of motion.

Some people, oddly, have trouble locking out and find the earlier part of the deadlift easier than the latter part and so rack pulls or rack lockouts can allow work just on the lockout.

[T-Cake]

Ok I have a stupid question, what are rack pulls? Sorry to change the subject, the workout looks good t-cake. I agree with Blunt W on the squat thing, do squats early in the workout.
Don't worry about it! I had to YouTube it to figure out what it was. At least you were brave enough to ask! :)


Rack Pulls are deadlifts but done inside a power rack, lifting the weight from the supports rather than from the floor. One can typically use more weight but over a reduced range of motion.

Some people, oddly, have trouble locking out and find the earlier part of the deadlift easier than the latter part and so rack pulls or rack lockouts can allow work just on the lockout.
Okay, now THAT is some cool information to know. :) Now I get it.

[FiletMignon32oz]

Hello people!

I tried to youtube "HammerStrength Iso-lateral Shoulder press" came out with zero results.

What are these?

I have been sick since Monday, I can't wait to hit the gym again. I am going stir crazy.

[T-Cake]

Hello people!

I tried to youtube "HammerStrength Iso-lateral Shoulder press" came out with zero results.

What are these?

I have been sick since Monday, I can't wait to hit the gym again. I am going stir crazy.
It's part of the Hammer Strength series of lever machines.

Hammer Strength is the brand and the move is labeled (at my gym at least) "iso-lateral shoulder press". You are seated, and you work your arms either isometrically or simultaneously (your call). Plate it up and go to work.

It's the one machine I find grows my anterior delts the way I want it too. Great exercise!

[Lumberjack5.1]

That dya as listed is too much, IMO. Those movements all HEAVILY work the lower back; you'll be overtaxing your erectors by a wide margin with that plan.

I'd pick SLDL or rack pulls (they're fairly redundant) along with a press, and do the pendlays on a different day along with the squats.

Could you do 2 cicuit days and two heavy days? IMO that would allow you to do a good bit of work on your lifts without trying to jam it all in one day.

[T-Cake]

That dya as listed is too much, IMO. Those movements all HEAVILY work the lower back; you'll be overtaxing your erectors by a wide margin with that plan.

I'd pick SLDL or rack pulls (they're fairly redundant) along with a press, and do the pendlays on a different day along with the squats.

Could you do 2 cicuit days and two heavy days? IMO that would allow you to do a good bit of work on your lifts without trying to jam it all in one day.
Bwahhhhhh... okay, I will drop the SLDLs and stick with rack pulls for that.

This is why I asked -- I don't know how much is going to be too much. I mean, even if I do a 2x5 for each move... it adds up but I think I'd be okay doing FOUR THINGS. Five was pushing it, so it's good to know what's redundant.

I'd like to leave the lifting schedule the way it is for now because I have so many OTHER things I need to work on and it takes an additional 3 day split to do that (specifically abs, legs (leaning out burns) and shoulders). I've neglected the abs for soooo long... and the hams get lots of work, but not the quads (not to put on size, but to burn some of the intramuscular fat out).

Anyway, I will think about doing 2 heavy and 2 circuit next time I write a program (6-7 weeks from now). I think that'll be a good idea. I'll work my way up to it.

[Blut Wump]

That's why I was suggesting picking one or two to focus on. You could push the prime exercises with good weight and sets and then run the other ones much lighter for, say, a couple or three sets of 8 or 10. More as conditioning exercises and to get a pump than as real strength-builders.

LJ's suggestion of splitting some out and having two "heavy" days would be better but might not fit in with your plans. If you want to hit whole body and lift heavy on everything then the old squat, press, pull template can't really be beaten. You can add in some arms and abs to finish.

[T-Cake]

Hmm -- okay... an idea:

What if (since my heavy days are on MONDAYS) I do this... alternate what I do on each Monday?

So THIS Monday I would do:
Rack Pulls
Squats
Shoulder Press

And then NEXT Monday I would do:
Pendlay Rows
SLDLs
Shoulder Press?

So I'm still WORKING the same things... but I can generate more variety.

Or should I just take one of those two lists above, do it every Monday and call it a day?

[Lumberjack5.1]

If it's gotta be one day, like BW said a push/pull/squat would be the way to go. I'd do front squats, rack pulls, and whatever press you feel is best. I'd advise a free weight movement as you can always do the machine stuff amidst the circuits.

[Lumberjack5.1]

Hmm -- okay... an idea:

What if (since my heavy days are on MONDAYS) I do this... alternate what I do on each Monday?

So THIS Monday I would do:
Rack Pulls
Squats
Shoulder Press

And then NEXT Monday I would do:
Pendlay Rows
SLDLs
Shoulder Press?

So I'm still WORKING the same things... but I can generate more variety.

Or should I just take one of those two lists above, do it every Monday and call it a day?

Variety is over-rated :D I'd push the same lifts each monday for a while, then when it becomes difficult/impossible to progress on them sub them for similar movements; i.e. fronts/racks/OHP becomes Oly's/pendlays/bench.

[T-Cake]

If it's gotta be one day, like BW said a push/pull/squat would be the way to go. I'd do front squats, rack pulls, and whatever press you feel is best. I'd advise a free weight movement as you can always do the machine stuff amidst the circuits.
Gotcha. I like that suggestion... I will do that. I'm still going to do that shoulder press at the end of the workout though as a final exhaustion.

Honestly, I just don't know proper bench form. I've tried and it feels weird so I think I'm doing something wrong.


Variety is over-rated :D I'd push the same lifts each monday for a while, then when it becomes difficult/impossible to progress on them sub them for similar movements; i.e. fronts/racks/OHP becomes Oly's/pendlays/bench.
Alright I'll pick 3 and go for it like that. I think that's better for me too... I really wanted to do a number of sets for each move, like 1 warm-up and 4-5 working. Is that unrealistic?

[Blut Wump]

Variety isn't generally a good thing with lifting. The human body thrives on getting better at doing things through practice and need. If you stick with a pattern and force your body to continue to adapt to that pattern then it will get better at it upto the point where it stalls. Then you switch something up.

Do as many warmups as it takes to get to your worksets and to be able to perform them safely and with full involvement. 4 or 5 work sets is a good figure, varying mostly by how many reps you're aiming for.

[Lumberjack5.1]

Gotcha. I like that suggestion... I will do that. I'm still going to do that shoulder press at the end of the workout though as a final exhaustion.

Honestly, I just don't know proper bench form. I've tried and it feels weird so I think I'm doing something wrong.


Alright I'll pick 3 and go for it like that. I think that's better for me too... I really wanted to do a number of sets for each move, like 1 warm-up and 4-5 working. Is that unrealistic?

No, that's good. I'd do it like this:
-start somewhat light the first week and leave room to progress incrementally week-to-week
-set it up so that at week 3 you're trying to equal your PR for whatever set/rep scheme you're using (approximate if need be, but be realistic)
-beat the PR the next week, adn continue to beat it til you can't
-when you stall, rotate the next movements in.

[T-Cake]

Variety isn't generally a good thing with lifting. The human body thrives on getting better at doing things through practice and need. If you stick with a pattern and force your body to continue to adapt to that pattern then it will get better at it upto the point where it stalls. Then you switch something up.

Do as many warmups as it takes to get to your worksets and to be able to perform them safely and with full involvement. 4 or 5 work sets is a good figure, varying mostly by how many reps you're aiming for.
Great advice again. I know with Squats I'm good to go -- I've been practicing a great deal lately, so this is the time where I can actually feel good about seeing what weight I can do now that my form is Rippetoe-approved :D

I will definitely follow the advice when it comes to Pendlay Rows and Rack pulls for the first 2-3 weeks for sure. Form is #1 with me!!! cg taught me correctly :D I'm no fool! :)


No, that's good. I'd do it like this:
-start somewhat light the first week and leave room to progress incrementally week-to-week
-set it up so that at week 3 you're trying to equal your PR for whatever set/rep scheme you're using (approximate if need be, but be realistic)
-beat the PR the next week, adn continue to beat it til you can't
-when you stall, rotate the next movements in.
Great! I'll aim for 1 warm-up and 4 working then. :) Sounds like a plan!

And I like the progression set-up you've laid out there. I tend to folllow the same methodology with my circuits week to week as well. I set up my log before entering the gym, so I have realistical goals to build upon whether it be form-focused, one more rep or a bit more weight. I like your style.

Thanks, guys! I'm excited for tomorrow! :)

[DrewDog]

like was said before, I'd definitely do squat first.

generally I arrange my workout in a descending order of how compound they are. IF I was doing a setup like yours, I'd also try to alternate muscle groups to let them rest

going from the original list you posted, I'd probably arrange it as following

Squats
Pendlay Rows
Rackpulls
SLDL
Shoulder Press

[Big Sky Guy]

The only thing that comes to mind for me with squats and other compound exercises is the idea of pre-exhaustion. If you have a muscle group that is dominating a lift and need to bring up the other groups to keep moving forward, example doing leg extensions before squats to pre-exhaust the quads and help focus more on the ham/glutes. A lot of this can be accomplished with leg width during squats, but I just wanted to bring up the idea.

I am certainly not saying you need to do anything T-cake! It seems everything you have done in the past several years has been working to a "T" :).


I am excited to see where this blitzkreig gets you!!!!

[T-Cake]

Thanks for the help, Drew and Sky! :kiss: You boys rock :rawk:

In my log, I just posted what I did today.
I tried to best take into account what you all were commenting on and I was pretty proud of the pace I took today with progression and numbers. :)

With squats, I am afraid to make them my first lift simply b/c I need to be realllllllll warm to do them and I train at 6:30am. So rolling out of bed, driving to the gym, and 5 minutes of cardio would be all I'd get to lubricate those knees and get the fluids goin' -- so I ended up putting Pendlays before 'em, working up a huge sweat and then rearin' to go for squats.

Squats didn't hurt my knees at ALL! My form is sooooo much better now! :woot: But better safe than sorry, ya' know? I'm goin' easy!

[DrewDog]

I'd suggest always (this is not just for this routine) doing a good dynamic warmup to get everything nice and warm. GFH had one posted in the Injury Prevention/Rehab forum but since its not there now, there are a ton on the web you could try.

doing rows before won't be a good warmup for your legs since they aren't really using your legs. if anything, your legs might cool off a bit. some lightweight squats would be a good warmup/joint lubricator.

[T-Cake]

I'd suggest always (this is not just for this routine) doing a good dynamic warmup to get everything nice and warm. GFH had one posted in the Injury Prevention/Rehab forum but since its not there now, there are a ton on the web you could try.

doing rows before won't be a good warmup for your legs since they aren't really using your legs. if anything, your legs might cool off a bit. some lightweight squats would be a good warmup/joint lubricator.
Claire was saying the same thing about the dynamic warm-up vid. She posted some links in my log, I think -- I need to go look. I will definitely look into it! :)

I also read in Rippetoe's book about squats and proper warm-up, so I use the pictures/info from that to make sure my hip flexors and chin/spine and knees are in the right place/width, etc. Just doing that before squatting has helped me a great deal. When I still feel tense or too cool, I'll stretch or dome some bodyweight squats or both.

I'm still gonna look at that video though!