Behind the neck vs. In front of the neck

[Swole_2112]

What's the advantage of doing shoulder presses behind the neck vs. the same movement in front of the neck? Same question as it applies applies to pull-ups/pull-downs.

[Ulter]

One screws up your shoulders and the other doesn't.

[mnk]

I agree with Ulter, behind the neck press if not done correctly (form) can cause severe shoulder issues......ESPECIALLY for those that hame limited flexability. You can develop your shoulders the same with heavy front barbell presses or even do heavy dumbell presses. I ve had rotator cuff surgery (like most on this board) and I can attribute it to heave (225-250pd) behind the neck barbell press. My flexability has gotten worse through out the years but my shoulder development and strength is pretty good. 100 pd dumbell press and 225 barbell front press and no pain. Same goes with lat pull downs to the rear! Stick to front lat pull downs. The chance of injury outweighs the benfits that you can get from doing rears especially when you can gain the same by doing fronts! my 2Cents

[dirty~d~]

Most of the Oly lifters I know personally work BTN press. None of them have any shoulder issues that I'm aware of, myself included. As is with most lifts, flexibility and form are critical. One of the benefits is development of strength through range of motion. It requires time to get the joints used to the action, just like any other lift. Going balls to the wall without practicing technique probably isn't a good idea. Best thing to do is try them personally. If you don't like them, or you don't physically respond to them as you'd hoped then you'll have your answer. For how I train they work great... not going to be the same for you or the next guy/girl.

I don't use BTN pull downs/ups... never had the desire to either.

[BiggT]

I don't do BTN pull-ups or pulldowns . . . not that they're bad, but I personally always thought they just felt goofy, but that's just me.

I love BTN pressing. I like the big ROM, and with BTN push presses, I like that you don't have to worry about keeping the bar racked across the front. Also, with a BTN press, the weight is already behind your head and you don't need to push it back there at the end of the lift.

I'm a fan of BTN pressing, but it certainly is not necessary. For most with flexible shoulders and no pre-existing problems, they should be fine if done correctly. But, if they hurt, then there is certainly no need to do them.

[Jrod5150]

I also do behind the neck. For me it feels like I work more on the tip top of my delts as well as the top of my traps. They kind of sqeeze together when holding the weight. It's feels awsome. Pull downs, same concept.

When doing front presses, I'm working more of the front delt than anything. One thing I realy like to do is super sets. One in front, then BTN.

[Swole_2112]

I got to admit I get the same feeling, especially with BTN pull downs. When doing those, I feel it in the traps more so than anything else.

[Sue Me]

I do BTN Pull-Ups 1x a week, and "normal" Pull-Ups 1x a week. Not sure as to one being a greater benefit than the other, but I enjoy the change-up. It feels like I have to keep my core stiffer for the BTN's...

So basically, not a lot of help, but my $.02

[silver_shadow]

I also do behind the neck. For me it feels like I work more on the tip top of my delts as well as the top of my traps. They kind of sqeeze together when holding the weight. It's feels awsome. Pull downs, same concept.

When doing front presses, I'm working more of the front delt than anything. One thing I realy like to do is super sets. One in front, then BTN.
yep yep! add another guy to the list - i love doing them because of the feeling when the bar is locked out at the top. i prefer them to in front... i have knocked myself in the chin a few times doing in front :D

not necessary as T mentioned but worth a try if your shoulders are good.

the funny thing is i've just torn my the tendon in my right delt but i still enjoy these - i'm just careful about warming up and how much i lift right now till the injury heals up completely.

[Nathan]

I used to do BTN shoulder presses, but then someone once said to me: "When do you ever pick anything up from behind your head?" I have never done them since.

[Ulter]

I want to add to my post that it took almost 20 years to trash my shoulders doing BTN. After getting them scoped twice each I gave up, so you should be good for a while.

[NWMUSCLE]

Have to agree with Ulter, btn is no good for the long term, there was some good info on this that I read about 10 years ago, maybe it is out there, I will see if i can find it.
When you get older all that shit catches up with you:poser:

[Jrod5150]

I used to do BTN shoulder presses, but then someone once said to me: "When do you ever pick anything up from behind your head?" I have never done them since.

U know it's funny u say that. Believe it or not I actually find myself doing a lot of lifting or bracing myself with grips behind the neck. The work I do (for a living) is very physical and calls for some very strange and acword situations from time to time that force me to do some ninga type methods to my madness.

That's rite NWMUSLE I'm a ninga! :p

[silver_shadow]

I want to add to my post that it took almost 20 years to trash my shoulders doing BTN. After getting them scoped twice each I gave up, so you should be good for a while.

i can see myself trashing my shoulders doing strict or near strict BTN presses which i assume was what you were doing. the leg drive negates the portion of the ROM where your shoulders are most vulnerable.

[GND123]

braford presses work well. try them out you will be quite suprised.

[ChefWide]

Can't do Snatch Balances or HSBs without going behind the neck. Most shoulder issues we see from our beginning O lifters come from not really externally rotating their shoulders on lock out and being squishy in the midline: no support means shoulders in the shitcan.

[silver_shadow]

CW: what do you mean by squishy in the midline? do you mean combination of poor leg drive and not keeping your arms, shoulders and the rest of your torso tight enough as you go through the middle part of the movement?

[ChefWide]

CW: what do you mean by squishy in the midline? do you mean combination of poor leg drive and not keeping your arms, shoulders and the rest of your torso tight enough as you go through the middle part of the movement?

True 'core' stability: locking down the relationship of pelvic angle to spine with NO spinal flexion along the full range of motion from the drive from the bottom. Shoulders get fucked by the following mashup: Weak abs = no L-spine support = butt-winking at the bottom = spinal flexion on the drive = shoulders going all over the place trying to stabilize the load which those tiny little tertiary movers were never meant to do.

The crux of the biscuit is if the lifter can't COMPLETELY lock down that pelvis/spine relationship for the drive up, their shoulders will go down the toilette. Might not be today, but eventually they're gonna tank.

[Zoofus]

I'll throw a side issue that a lot of people overemphasize flat bench. They end up being relatively strong in the press due to carryover from the bench as opposed to working and directly developing the press and specific overhead work. Like a weak link in the chain, their shoulders outside front delts are prone to injury because they can push up heavier weight than they really should be working with (you also see stability issues in the lower back/abs here too which is why so many prefer seated). Others have noted, you don't see a whole lot of this in olympic lifters who work overhead very frequently and don't overemphasize the flat bench yet this is not at all uncommon in recreational lifters or those who've heavily emphasized the flat bench as opposed to overhead for long periods.

2 cents worth

[BiggT]

I could also add something about shoulder injuries. I've been around a lot of athletes, bodybuilders, recreational lifters, and gym rats. The shoulder problems (from my observation) seem to occur in lifters who press entirely too wide and bench with the elbows flared.