BENCH PRESS, Whats your techingue/advice for a beginner?

[Aesirian]

I wanted to start this thread because of the questions our new member Medic999 has about technigue. It seems right now we have a good group of lifters all preparing to compete in Pling, Push/Pull, as well as a few who have recently competed.
So please share your thoughts and approach to benching...

[Aesirian]

I'm going to walk through my mechanics and thought process as I do a becnh press;
1.) Base: feet planted firmly to the floor, shoulder width apart. Heels under my knees. 2.) Placement on the bench: Back firmly centered, bar vertical to my chin. 3.) Hand placement: for me, its index fingers on the rings, hands slightly rotated in so that there's a straight line thru my wrist, forearm, and elbows.

The Lift;
1.) Body close enough to the uprights that the bar doesn't have much lateral movement to put it in pressing position, but far enough away that the bar clears the uprights during the movement.
2.) Eccentric Phase/ Concentric Phase (lowering the bar and pressing the bar)..travels on a natural arch from over my chin down to just below nipple-line, touches (not bounced) then returns the same path of travel, concentric phase, back to starting point.
3.) Breathing; After a few deep breaths, and exhalations with hands firmly planted and ready to go, I forcefully exhale then immediately take a short breath at the time of lift off. As I lower the bar I take in a time deep breath that ends just before the bar touches my chest, hold breath, touch, then exhale in a manner that the exhaled lung volume ends as I complete the lift.
4.) Arm Position; for me, its elbows approx 45 degrees out from the side of my body. This allows me to engage Triceps, Pecs, Delts, Lats and traps into the lift.

What goes through my mind, its a feeling that every body part is working together; lift off..triceps and delts come under tension. lats are wide and feeling thick against the bench. Weights lowering, air fills my lungs as my pecs come under tension and stretch. lats are now contracting, traps thicken forming the launch pad. There's a moment of euphoria just before the weight touches my chest, the breath hold! Then, like the screaming of a thousand souls comes the guteral release of air as the weight drives up away from my chest...!

I do the same thing whether I'm working reps in training, or preparing to achieve a "PR".

There are other things to be said about driving thru your feet, back arch, work tempo, etc... I'm sure others will have plenty to say.

[Aesirian]

BUMP! Come on boys and girls help this kid out. I'm sure he's heard enough out of me.

[Lumberjack5.0]

For me, if my heels are on the ground I'm not getting max leg drive. I like to pull my feet back so that I'm on the balls of my feet. "Driving" them down/away when in this position kinda shoves me toward the uprights horizontally (I hope that makes sense -- harder to type out than to demonstrate in person :D) and stabilizes my base.

Since focusing on leg drive as part of stability, I've cramped my hammies on most maximal efforts. That's how I know I'm dong it right. I think leg drive is generally an under-emphasized aspect of benching -- I noticed a marked benefit from giving leg drive/foot placement some concentration till it became a nearly unconscious part of my setup.

If you watch youtube vids of big benchers you see that the legs are a big part of the lift.

[G-REX]

Setting up and maintaining position during the bench press is half the battle. Once you get all that figured out, it's just a matter of execution. I'll describe how I set up for a raw bench, if you want to know how to set up for shirt-bench, I'll get into that later.

Let me emphasis that I am a powerlifter and am therefore interested in one thing, pushing the most weight possible. I don't particularly care about chest hypertrophy or anything like that. From my experience, if you get strong and press heavy weights, the size will take care of itself.

First and foremost, in order to get your entire body into the lift you'll need to learn how to get proper leg drive. The most important part about this is how to set your feet. Some people want their feet underneath them, some(long-legged lifters usually) need to keep their feet out in front of them in order to keep their but on the bench. Either is okay as long as it allows you to use your legs to help stabilize the lift and drive the bar up. Once you get really good at it, you can even use your legs to drive your low back into a high arch, shortening the distance you actually have to press the bar as well as decreasing the range of motion and the wear and tear on the shoulder girdle.

This is how I set up for a raw bench:
1.) sit at the end of the bench with my feet about shoulder width apart.
2.) lay back on the bench, as I lay back I'm already arching my back as hard as possible.
3.) Once on the bench, I pull my shoulder blades together as hard as possible in order to kind of grip the bench. The shoulders will be held in this position through out the entire lift.
4.) I then take my grip on the bar, if it's raw my index finger is on the power ring. If I'm doing tricep/board work it's pinkies on the rings. If it's close grip, it's a thumbs width away from the smooth part of the bar. Once I've got my grip on the bar, I make sure my shoulders are pulled together tight and drive my legs into the floor to push myself into a tight position. I'm using my legs to drive my arch up higher and push my hips towards my shoulders. At this point your hips will come off the bench, this is not a legal benching position in any fed. You'll have to slide your feet out until your but comes back down to the bench. Get your feet flat on the floor and keep pressing them into the floor. This will help keep you stable as well as allow you to really drive with your entire body on the press command.

You are now ready to accept the weight and actually press it. This NOT a comfortable position, your low back, abs, legs and hips will all be very tired after benching in this manner.

Your postion, shoulders back and tight, your back arched hard and your legs driving your arch even harder has to stay tight throughout the duration of the lift.

1.) Take the weight at arms length, lock the weight out immediately. Your triceps should be locked at the start of the lift.
2.) Take the weight out over your body, this will take some getting used to. The descent should start at or around the bottom of your chest when looked at from the side. As Aesirian said, in this postion your arms should be roughly 45 degrees to your body. This takes alot of the stress off of the shoulders and puts it on the lats.
3.) Once your set up and have the weight in the proper position, you want to break at the elbows. The elbows guide the weight down. Use your lats to lower the weight slowly and controlled at first. Once you get stronger and your technique gets better, you'll actually be pulling the weight down.
4.) Once the weight touches the chest, you want to drive your feet hard into the floor while driving our triceps up and out as hard as possible. You want to flex your triceps hard from the very beginning of the lift, the chest will do it's part automatically but you have to force your triceps to fire.The bench press is a power movement, perform it as such. Maintain your position and hold your air throughout the entire lift.
5.) The proper bar path for a bench press is actually back towards our face, not straight up.
6.) Drive the bar to full lockout, hold the weight at the top. If your doing reps repeat, if our doing singles rack it!

Hope this helps, if you've got any questions feel free to ask. Gotta get to work right now!

[any1uno]

I would make G-Rex's post a stick all itself. Nice..I have nothing ore to add to it. Am anxious to read your write up on shirted bench.

[roadwarrior]

G-Rex... great explanation. I've been watching videos and trying to work on my arch/ position for benching to get away from being a flat bencher. Your description is clear and concise instructions that coupled with the videos will help me a lot. Please do post the shirted version as I will be working to learn that in about 6-8 weeks.

[GTLifter]

I'm going to walk through my mechanics and thought process as I do a becnh press;
1.) Base: feet planted firmly to the floor, shoulder width apart. Heels under my knees. 2.) Placement on the bench: Back firmly centered, bar vertical to my chin. 3.) Hand placement: for me, its index fingers on the rings, hands slightly rotated in so that there's a straight line thru my wrist, forearm, and elbows.

The Lift;
1.) Body close enough to the uprights that the bar doesn't have much lateral movement to put it in pressing position, but far enough away that the bar clears the uprights during the movement.
2.) Eccentric Phase/ Concentric Phase (lowering the bar and pressing the bar)..travels on a natural arch from over my chin down to just below nipple-line, touches (not bounced) then returns the same path of travel, concentric phase, back to starting point.
3.) Breathing; After a few deep breaths, and exhalations with hands firmly planted and ready to go, I forcefully exhale then immediately take a short breath at the time of lift off. As I lower the bar I take in a time deep breath that ends just before the bar touches my chest, hold breath, touch, then exhale in a manner that the exhaled lung volume ends as I complete the lift.
4.) Arm Position; for me, its elbows approx 45 degrees out from the side of my body. This allows me to engage Triceps, Pecs, Delts, Lats and traps into the lift.

What goes through my mind, its a feeling that every body part is working together; lift off..triceps and delts come under tension. lats are wide and feeling thick against the bench. Weights lowering, air fills my lungs as my pecs come under tension and stretch. lats are now contracting, traps thicken forming the launch pad. There's a moment of euphoria just before the weight touches my chest, the breath hold! Then, like the screaming of a thousand souls comes the guteral release of air as the weight drives up away from my chest...!

I do the same thing whether I'm working reps in training, or preparing to achieve a "PR".

There are other things to be said about driving thru your feet, back arch, work tempo, etc... I'm sure others will have plenty to say.

I disagree with that. Like G-Rex said I hold my air for the duration of the rep. If I am doing rep work I'll take in more air while the bar is held in the lockout position.




I would make G-Rex's post a stick all itself. Nice..I have nothing ore to add to it. Am anxious to read your write up on shirted bench.


I agree. Not only does he have the bench on record to back up what he says but he is also a fantastic coach.

[Deleted]

G REX..great post!
when i set up i struggle getting an arch!
but i love the explanation of when the bar reaches your chest to drive your feet into the ground and tense your tri's to drive the bar back up!

Im at work now but will have a proper read later

[Beverly McD.]

I would make G-Rex's post a stick all itself. Nice..I have nothing ore to add to it. Am anxious to read your write up on shirted bench.

Another outsanding post by G-Rex.

[52_21_30]

Just curious. How many of you heavy flat BB Bencher's have had a considerable injury (pec tear, rotator cuff, etc) over your career? I have heard Dorian Yates speak of this over the years and he strongly advices against FLAT BB Bench press for weight training. Of course if structure PL is your sport then you obvi cant get around it but J/W

[BiggT]

I think as far as muscle tears, lifting weights in order to compete at something at a high level will put you at risk for a muscle tear regardless of the lift. I've seen Dorian Yates's training videos. The amount of weight he uses coupled with his other circumstances are going to put him at risk to tear a muscle whether he is doing flats, inclines, dumbells, or a hammer strength machine. That's just the nature of the beast for people who compete at a high level.

As far as shoulder problems, most bodybuilders and most gym rats bench entirely too wide and with their elbows flared out, which increases susceptibility to shoulder problems and gives the flat bench a bad reputation among people.

[Lumberjack5.0]

I tend to agree with T based on my experience. While I'm no competitive PL or anything, I would say that the typical elbow placemnt of someone who benches PL-style makes WORLDS of difference in terms of choulder/pec strain (bad strain, I mean, like on the cuff and on the pec/delt tie-ins) vs someone whose tendency is to flare them out in search of greater pec emphasis.

I've never had a hint of shoulder/pec pain from flat benching since switching to a PL-esque style, and I do a lot of pressing (two-three different exercises a week minimum, generally with a fair bit of workload).

[Deleted]

So would you say that a wider grip with elbows flared..although more chance of risk..means the chest will grow better?

[BiggT]

So would you say that a wider grip with elbows flared..although more chance of risk..means the chest will grow better?

Well, that's the idea behind benching like that. However, I've never benched like that and have never had a problem developing my chest. In fact, my chest is overdeveloped to the point of looking kind of ridiculous, lol, and I bench with a closer grip and tuck my elbows.

[Lumberjack5.0]

med, IMHO, ironicallly no. I think it's a case of flawed logic. I'm of the opinion that most people grossly overvalue the "feel" (proprioreceptive feedback) of the exercises they perform.

[BiggT]

I've got to agree with LJ. We've been saying it on forums for about 5 years now. I don't believe in sloppy training, but I don't agree with the logic that building a bigger muscle is about a "slow," "controlled" "feel." It's about activating the muscle to move progressively heavier weight over time. I always felt techniques that people use to "feel a lift" are just ways to limit load, thus limit stimulus. I can have LJ smach my knees with a crow bar before I squat so that 135 feels heavy, but is being forced to squat with 135 going to make my quads bigger? People who can benefit from a mind-muscle connection lecture are people who are sloppy in the gym and use poor form. If your form is tight and solid, I think trying to feel the muscle so to speak is overrated.

[G-REX]

Thanks guys and gals!

Have to agree with LJ and Bigg, I don't bench anything slow. I'm intentionally trying to generate as much force as possible, which means speed. I don't train for size but I still have very good chest development. Heavy benching is in my opinion the easiest way to put on chest mass, and the easiest way to bench heavy is with proper form.

[Aesirian]

[QUOTE=GTLifter;546838]I disagree with that. Like G-Rex said I hold my air for the duration of the rep. If I am doing rep work I'll take in more air while the bar is held in the lockout position.




I understand the thought process and why you disagree. I will explain why I do it this way, I have actually used both technigues; G-Rex's technigue I use for hvy singles, Pling training. I use my technigue for bbing...here's why,
We all have a physiological PEEP value in our lungs. ("PEEP", Peak End Expiratory Pressure). This is the amount of pressure left in the lungs after normal tidal volume exhalation, measured approx @ +5 cmH2O.
This pressure splints open the secondary and terminal airways and most importantly, the alveoli, where gas exchange occurs. By taking the abbreviated breath with a hold, I'm increasing my PEEP value to approx +20cmH2O. This overcomes the osmotic gradient at the AC membrane allowing the movement of O2 into the blood stream to transfer at a much higher rate, over saturating the hemaglobin as the big breath then fills the lungs with the body under a load. The breath hold at the bottom of the lift has a similar effect forcing any O2 remaining over hemaglobin capacity to then be carried by the blood plasma.
long story short, its sets your cardiopulmonary system up to work at a higher capacity when doing repetitive heavy lifting. This technigue can be applied to many aspects of training.

[Deleted]

Ok guys thanks.
So next time i will try the above and just try and smash out every rep!

[Blut Wump]

There have been times, during the light warmups, that I've slightly lifted off the bench as the bar has reached the top.

Regarding breathing, I tend to hold my breath on the down and left it slowly out on the up. Alternatively, I'll hold it throughout and only release the air at the top to grab another lungful. If I'm doing 8 or more reps, this might change, I've not bothered to think about it in a long while on lengthier sets and don't really notice my breathing anymore.

That was a great bench write-up, G-Rex. I found myself wanting to press as I read through it. There's also an excellent reference article by Arioch in the Training Vault sticky.
The Bench Press by Arioch and Spatts (http://www.afboard.com/forum/showthread.php?106-The-Bench-Press)

G-Rex, if you don't mind. I'll link to your post, too, from the Training Vault.

[G-REX]

There have been times, during the light warmups, that I've slightly lifted off the bench as the bar has reached the top.

Regarding breathing, I tend to hold my breath on the down and left it slowly out on the up. Alternatively, I'll hold it throughout and only release the air at the top to grab another lungful. If I'm doing 8 or more reps, this might change, I've not bothered to think about it in a long while on lengthier sets and don't really notice my breathing anymore.

That was a great bench write-up, G-Rex. I found myself wanting to press as I read through it. There's also an excellent reference article by Arioch in the Training Vault sticky.
The Bench Press by Arioch and Spatts (http://www.afboard.com/forum/showthread.php?106-The-Bench-Press)

G-Rex, if you don't mind. I'll link to your post, too, from the Training Vault.
Not at all. If it can help, please feel free!

[Deleted]

I just always thought by involving your legs etc..like a powerlifter then you will become stronger..but your chest wont really develop aswel?

[Blut Wump]

I've yet to see a powerlifter with an undeveloped chest.

As many see it, the basic driving force of resistance training is learning to handle ever more stress and workload, workload being the sheer amount of total weight that you get through in a workout. Of course, you can pretty much ignore the pure warmups, since the stress aspect of them is minimal but, otherwise, workload is just weight moved. You need to work your muscles to encourage them to grow and to become stronger. There are also other factors involved, such as the distribution of fast-twitch and slow-twitch fibres, so-called red and white muscle, and also the involvement of the CNS. The CNS is what enables you to lift heavier weight by firing off ever more of your available muscle fibres. By lifting heavy weight you train your CNS to help you to be stronger.

Using leg-drive in a bench press is mostly about giving the primary muscles in the exercise a solid base to press against. It can help to consider the chain of support which leads from the floor to the weight, since the stability of every part of that chain is relevant to how well you can lift. Without leg-drive, all you have is the connection to the bench, with leg-drive, you have an extra, solid connection to the floor through your abs and legs. It all helps the chest, pecs, delts, triceps and lats to perform the press and so enables the lifter to accept more stress. More stress equates with more stimulus and, all being well, that should give rise to more of a training response.

[BiggT]

I've yet to see a powerlifter with an undeveloped chest.

As many see it, the basic driving force of resistance training is learning to handle ever more stress and workload, workload being the sheer amount of total weight that you get through in a workout. Of course, you can pretty much ignore the pure warmups, since the stress aspect of them is minimal but, otherwise, workload is just weight moved. You need to work your muscles to encourage them to grow and to become stronger. There are also other factors involved, such as the distribution of fast-twitch and slow-twitch fibres, so-called red and white muscle, and also the involvement of the CNS. The CNS is what enables you to lift heavier weight by firing off ever more of your available muscle fibres. By lifting heavy weight you train your CNS to help you to be stronger.

Using leg-drive in a bench press is mostly about giving the primary muscles in the exercise a solid base to press against. It can help to consider the chain of support which leads from the floor to the weight, since the stability of every part of that chain is relevant to how well you can lift. Without leg-drive, all you have is the connection to the bench, with leg-drive, you have an extra, solid connection to the floor through your abs and legs. It all helps the chest, pecs, delts, triceps and lats to perform the press and so enables the lifter to accept more stress. More stress equates with more stimulus and, all being well, that should give rise to more of a training response.

I agree. Just to even expand on this a little bit more and take the discussion away from bench presses and into every other exercise. Even forget about powerlifters and look at high-level bodybuilders. Youtube Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman, Branch Warren, Jonnie Jackson, watch the video ''Pumping Iron" . . . none of those guys do super slow, super controlled reps. The reason being is that all it does is limit load, thus limit stimulus.

Now, I'd never recommend sloppy form and weight at all costs over technique, but I'd never recommend the other side of the spectrum as well, and that's the fitness geek type lifter who has been coming to the gym since 1996 and doing textbook deadlifts, yet he is tiny and has never deadlifted more than 185.

Basically, my point is that physiologically the body really works as a unit all the time, albeit to varying degrees. But, you'll never isolate a muscle totally, and by doing a lift too slow and too controlled, you're making it much harder, but that's not good because it limits load, and load is your stimulus for growth. Again, I'm not condoning the sloppy crap you see people do in gyms a lot of the time, but nobody who has ever developed any appreciable muscle on their body is going to move super slow, super controlled, super light weights.

[Blut Wump]

One final point: training like a powerlifter also tends to be safe. Powerlifters strive to maximise their single rep performance and, of course, that means using the maximum weight they can handle over the movement. Maximum strain means maximum risk of something breaking and so powerlifters need to learn to lift not only well but also safely. The same applies to Olympic lifters, and possibly more so, since Oly lifters are usually lifting more than they can really cope with by using ballistics and rapidly changing positions beneath the bar.

As BiggT comments, you don't see either of these groups worrying about "feeling the muscle" and doing slow reps with light weight.

[booey]

What about time under tension? Isn't that the theory behind slow controlled movements? (e.g., DC training). Take someone who is using slow negatives on certain lifts (forget about squat, that's nearly impossible; think: bench). While they are sacrificing total load initially, shouldn't they experience greater growth so long as they are progressing from session to session?

[Lumberjack5.0]

More reps and sets = more TUT. IMHO that's the way to approach it rather than slowing the movement.

[JG1]

I think that'd depend heavily on that person's genetics. I did all of my growing while getting very little TUT--I was just working up to 1-3 near-max singles for my main lifts. I've also tried some of that slow negative stuff, and found it impossible to progress in any meaningful way (ie, more weight, more reps, or strength transfer to a normal-speed lift).

Yeah but how much growing are we talking about?

[JG1]

More reps and sets = more TUT. IMHO that's the way to approach it rather than slowing the movement.

yep

[JG1]

Regarding feel.....

IMO it's very important to feel the movement in the particular muscle you're working. If you bench press and don't feel it in your pecs, then there are better movements for you to do for that muscle. That goes for any exercise for any muscle (if hypertrophy is your goal). And I'm not talking about using "feel" as an excuse for using lighter weights.....I'm probably the strongest guy at my gym (actually I know I am) and I train the heaviest, BUT, even with using extremely heavy weights I feel the muscle being worked....always. If I don't I move on to another exercise. Ask any successful BB and they'll tell you this regarding "feel".

[JG1]

I'll put up photos of what happened without ever training for hypertrophy--really tiny photos, as all I have access to from before my 25th bday is from archives on other forums, but you'll get an idea. As a girl who'd been plenty active in the first shot, and then just added PL training to get to the 2nd shot...:dunno:
Of course, this is where not having a past kind of bites my ability to say anything about it.

You definitely have a thick back. Can definitely tell you put in you share of work on DL's. Good job.

[Aesirian]

I'll put up photos of what happened without ever training for hypertrophy--really tiny photos, as all I have access to from before my 25th bday is from archives on other forums (edit: ooh, caught one on this forum that was missed in last year's destruction :) ), but you'll get an idea. As a girl who'd been plenty active in the first shot, and then just added PL training to get to the 2nd shot...:dunno:
Of course, this is where not having a past kind of bites my ability to say anything about it. Except the bit about my bench, there's data on that :lol:


Nice pics kiddo!!! And yes, you have the experience to speak from!

[Aesirian]

Regarding feel.....

IMO it's very important to feel the movement in the particular muscle you're working. If you bench press and don't feel it in your pecs, then there are better movements for you to do for that muscle. That goes for any exercise for any muscle (if hypertrophy is your goal). And I'm not talking about using "feel" as an excuse for using lighter weights.....I'm probably the strongest guy at my gym (actually I know I am) and I train the heaviest, BUT, even with using extremely heavy weights I feel the muscle being worked....always. If I don't I move on to another exercise. Ask any successful BB and they'll tell you this regarding "feel".

I totally agree on "feel". I train very heavy as well, but I was getting a little frustrated that I wasn't putting on more size even with gear. Granted, I'm already larger than most at my age. After having to go thru some rehab this last couple of months using higher rep/volume, 15-20, I was surprized to see that I was actually growing while just just on my cruise cycle. I had always worked in the 6-12 rep range.
Now that I'm back to full out bulking, I'm staying with 8-20 and ever-increasing workload with weight and volume. Can't wait to get to the gym just talking about it.
Don't think I'm going to bench for a while, Thats how I separated my AC and small pec tear last Dec. Big DBs with lots of progressions is where I'm at now.

[Blut Wump]

J, that has to be the finest female back and set of delts ever created. You were magnificent.

Here's an expanded version.

http://i43.tinypic.com/b81tnm.jpg