Diabetes

[Blut Wump]

Someone close to me (not me :)) has just been diagnosed with Type II diabetes. He's been prescribed Metformin for the time being. Naturally, he also has high BP and cholesterol issues.

I was wondering if anyone might comment on any ways in which they noticed a difference from being on testosterone. Test is reputed to aid with insulin sensitivity. Has it caused anyone to reduce their medications? How would one know if one needed to reduce one's meds?

Similarly for those who use Glucorell-R to assist in diabetes control. What, if anything, did you actually notice and in what ways has it affected your treatment.

Finally, has anyone here been diagnosed with diabetes and enjoyed a full remission?

Feel free to PM if you view this as too personal for the open board. Thanks in advance for any info.

[Bakunin]

Sorry not to answer what you are asking directly. But I was just replying to a thread on Intermittant Fasting on the diet section, and for the last 3months or so I have been reading a lot about it, and I remember seeing how people had great results with type 2 diabetes and IF, and even some claiming full remission.

Just something you migth want to look into..

http://www.afboard.com/forum/diet-nutrition/37833-any-i-f-ers-out-there.html

[ChefWide]

Hey Blut,

Just as a genetic predisposition for alcoholism requires a very specific activity to express itself (drinking alcohol) so does Type II Diabetes, you must eat sugars (starches) to have that issue in your life. No sugars? No chronically elevated insulin issues, no hyperinsulinemia, no Type II.

Simply put? Put him on a strictly Paleo diet regimen with a roughly 55% Fat, 30% Protein 15% carb ratio with ZERO starches and no more than 20% of the carb quantity coming from fruit (that's VERY little fruit, clearly). Intense, short bouts of max effort work.

ABSOLUTELY ZERO artificial/psuedo sugar sweeteners: no aspartame, no sucralose, no stevia, no blue agave, no honey, nada. He needs to avoid even a hint of cephalic phase insulin response.

Do you have access to his blood work? Body mass numbers? Love to know what his numbers are right now and if he sticks with the 'no starches/no grains/no sweetie shit' plan, i give him four months of no fuckups and he'll be good to go.

[Anya]

Hey Blut,

Just as a genetic predisposition for alcoholism requires a very specific activity to express itself (drinking alcohol) so does Type II Diabetes, you must eat sugars (starches) to have that issue in your life. No sugars? No chronically elevated insulin issues, no hyperinsulinemia, no Type II.

Simply put? Put him on a strictly Paleo diet regimen with a roughly 55% Fat, 30% Protein 15% carb ratio with ZERO starches and no more than 20% of the carb quantity coming from fruit (that's VERY little fruit, clearly). Intense, short bouts of max effort work.

ABSOLUTELY ZERO artificial/psuedo sugar sweeteners: no aspartame, no sucralose, no stevia, no blue agave, no honey, nada. He needs to avoid even a hint of cephalic phase insulin response.

Do you have access to his blood work? Body mass numbers? Love to know what his numbers are right now and if he sticks with the 'no starches/no grains/no sweetie shit' plan, i give him four months of no fuckups and he'll be good to go.

Stevia shouldn't be included in that list.

[TheHunted]

I've been type I Diabetic for over 20 years so my case is a little different but I might have some helpful info. Before I say anything, I will just add that each diabetic is different so I don't want to imply my experiences will be identical.

In terms of taking testosterone, I do notice some decreased need for insulin. More than that, I notice that my blood sugar is less prone to extreme highs and lows than when I'm low on test.

Glucorell is good stuff. I use it religiously and it does lower blood sugar. It easily drops my blood sugar 100 points at times. That along with cinnamon, ginseng and some others can really reduce the need for insulin. One thing that many are surprised lowers blood sugar is coffee. I cup of coffee has taken my blood sugar from being way too high (300's) all the way down to normal.

Generally speaking, high fiber diet, low carbs, snacking versus eating set meals, staying away from stimulants, and an exercise regimen will all help reduce or even eliminate the need for meds for type II diabetes.

Hope some of that helps. It's a very simplified bunch of ideas. I'd be happy to answer specific questions if you have any. Good luck to your friend!

[Hidngod]

I was able to get off my meds (Glyburide and Metformin) periodically. But my favourite activities, Gluttony and Slothfulness, kept me returning to the sugar walls (of my arteries).
Seriously. The things that worked best:
1. Watch what you eat. I was almost able to get right off my meds, after being diabetic for over 10 years, with the Ketogenic Diet.
One of Lyle McDonald's many books. (http://http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ketogenic-diet)
2. Exercise must include resistance weight training (doesn't need to be intensive), and cardio (also no need for intensive). You just need to be consistent.

[ChefWide]

Anya,

Stevia belongs on that list: it tastes sweet. ANYTHING that tastes obliquely sweet will trigger a cephalic phase insulin response. In short, if it tastes sweet the body thinks it's sugar and regardless of actual sugars will create insulin response. Hence the Diet Coke Obese crowd. Just because stevia is 'naturally sugar free' doesn't give it a hall pass.

The most profound thing you can do is teach the body/mind to NOT crave sweet things. Like kicking crack. Pretty much.

Hidngod, I'll beg to differ on that 'intensity not required' tip. Short bouts of supramaximal effort show profoundly better insulin sensitivity PWO while avoiding the cortisol up-regulation and leptin down-regulation commonly associated with LSD styled endurance training and long bouts of exhaustive resistance training. Can the low intensity stuff get the job done? Of course. Is it the most optimal path? Prolly not.

[Hidngod]

Hidngod, I'll beg to differ on that 'intensity not required' tip. Short bouts of supramaximal effort show profoundly better insulin sensitivity PWO while avoiding the cortisol up-regulation and leptin down-regulation commonly associated with LSD styled endurance training and long bouts of exhaustive resistance training. Can the low intensity stuff get the job done? Of course. Is it the most optimal path? Prolly not.
While I've never tried cardio while on LSD, I'm sure it's a trip. :grin:
Maybe my idea of intensity is a little skewed. I remember my Dr and my clinician telling me a moderate walk every night was sufficient. I have a hard time doing moderate.

[Ivanko]

Anya,

Stevia belongs on that list: it tastes sweet. ANYTHING that tastes obliquely sweet will trigger a cephalic phase insulin response. In short, if it tastes sweet the body thinks it's sugar and regardless of actual sugars will create insulin response. Hence the Diet Coke Obese crowd. Just because stevia is 'naturally sugar free' doesn't give it a hall pass.

The most profound thing you can do is teach the body/mind to NOT crave sweet things. Like kicking crack. Pretty much.



I have seen bg testing done after ingestion of stevia in black coffee showing no impact - a guy on the other board tested his bg 15 mins after the following

Coffee and cream
Coffee and Splenda
Coffee and Stevia

The fist two impact bg by circa 20 points, with stevia only a 2pt difference.

[Anya]

Anya,

Stevia belongs on that list: it tastes sweet. ANYTHING that tastes obliquely sweet will trigger a cephalic phase insulin response. In short, if it tastes sweet the body thinks it's sugar and regardless of actual sugars will create insulin response. Hence the Diet Coke Obese crowd. Just because stevia is 'naturally sugar free' doesn't give it a hall pass.

The most profound thing you can do is teach the body/mind to NOT crave sweet things. Like kicking crack. Pretty much.

Hidngod, I'll beg to differ on that 'intensity not required' tip. Short bouts of supramaximal effort show profoundly better insulin sensitivity PWO while avoiding the cortisol up-regulation and leptin down-regulation commonly associated with LSD styled endurance training and long bouts of exhaustive resistance training. Can the low intensity stuff get the job done? Of course. Is it the most optimal path? Prolly not.

Might I say I anticipated such a response mijo? Only retort is I have to go with my orthomolecular doc on this issue.

[Anya]

Ok I've got a minute at work to go a bit deeper on this stevia subject.

I've never found any well designed large sample research into the matter of stevia and blood glucose, but I've heard conflicting reports on it's effect. I do not have diabetes but I live with a chronic bacterial infection which makes any spikes in blood sugar undesirable. I've had a glucose meter for 4.5 years now to check myself as needed. Like other anecdotes by diabetics I've found my level from fasting actually drops a bit after consuming stevia.

Anecdotes are generally pretty useless for generalizing and sometimes downright misleading, but based on my personal experimentation with stevia products I suspect a few things.

1)Some diabetics who report a rise in blood glucose may be using stevia products with added xylitol and/or other sweeteners. I've seen brands marketed as being stevia, but if you read the ingredients you find it's not just a stevia product.
2)Sugar addicts are consuming very large amounts of highly refined stevia (~30g or more) with quickly digesting non-fibrous foods. For me, about 12g of stevia in my coffee tastes very sweet, but I can imagine sugar addicts loading up heavily to try to get their fix.
3)Lack of standardization of stevia products. When I first started using stevia I noticed substantial differences in taste from one pure stevia product to the next. Some pure stevia products had a bit of bitter aftertaste, while others had none at all and were noticeably sweeter. Some are just stevia leaves, which is the sweetest part of the plant, while some contain additional parts of the plant. Some appear to be refined further to concentrate the sweetness.

I think stevia can be used even in cases where any transient bump in blood glucose at all is intolerable. You just have to experiment and be responsible with it's use. Not an advertisement, but I settled on Stevita brand b/c of the taste and in the spoonable (16oz size) is financially economical.

[Beverly McD.]

I'm not diabetic, just careful with my caloric intake. The stevia I tried was bitter. Can someone suggest something with a sweeter flavor?
Thanks!

[Ivanko]

I'm not diabetic, just careful with my caloric intake. The stevia I tried was bitter. Can someone suggest something with a sweeter flavor?
Thanks!

If I have stevia in my coffee I have to put it in the cup and pour the hot water in onto the stevia - if you add the stevia after to the cup it tastes really bitter, if you put it in before its sweet. Strange I know

[ChefWide]

I am suggesting that ANYTHING that tastes sweet can add to chronically elevated levels of insulin. Does it's mechanism actually raise BG? No. I can say without hesitation that chronic insulin saturation is the causal factor in more baddies than I can shake a stick at, from all issues stemming from chronic inflammation to a host of autoimmune disorders.

The word that you used that absolutely precludes my use of it is 'refined'. I want, as much as I can be in control of what enters my mouth, to avoid anything that is 'refined' or adulterated from it's natural state. Fact is I think that the addiction to having to add something sweet 'by any means available' is a problem. You want something sweet? eat an apple. Kicking the sweet-need is harder than quitting smoking. I was for me for sure.