Training

[Cardinal Slin]

Hey all,

does it matter if I one day train high reps and the next session for the same body part I go low reps or does it make more sense to do a 3-6mth high rep and then 3-6mth low rep programme?

Any input is much appreciated.

[PeteM]

How low is low?
How high is high?
What is the desired end result?

[Jrod5150]

^^^^

[Cardinal Slin]

Thank you gents,

Really just looking to add 3-5lbs of muscle over the year and become more lean and defined and vascular.

I used to do higher reps 10-20 range, then read here to do 5-8 range so i switched and then yesterday tried higher again and my chest is in damn pain which made me feel good

[G-REX]

From a powerlifting standpoint, we often train the same bodypart or movement twice a week, and usually in two different fashions. For example on the bench press it would look like this:

Wednesday(heavy)
heavy work using one of several different exercises(floor press, bench press, incline bench, reverse band bench, etc..) usually working up to a 1 rep max.

Then it's on to heavy tricep work(board press, close grip bench, band presses, etc...) for sets of 5-8 reps.

Then it's a heavy shoulder movement(standing military, seated military, side press, etc...)for sets of 5-8 reps.

Heavy Row for sets of 5-10 reps.
Thats it for that day.

Sunday (light rep day)

Bench Press for speed(50% of one rep max)

Volume shoulder work,m usually lateral raises, front raises, rear delt raise, etc..) reps 12-15

Volume Tri work(extensions, skulls, etc...) reps are 12-20

Same for lat work.

Works well for us.

[Cardinal Slin]

Thanks bro, I will do one day of average to high and one day of heavy.

[Jrod5150]

From a powerlifting standpoint, we often train the same bodypart or movement twice a week, and usually in two different fashions. For example on the bench press it would look like this:

Wednesday(heavy)
heavy work using one of several different exercises(floor press, bench press, incline bench, reverse band bench, etc..) usually working up to a 1 rep max.

Then it's on to heavy tricep work(board press, close grip bench, band presses, etc...) for sets of 5-8 reps.

Then it's a heavy shoulder movement(standing military, seated military, side press, etc...)for sets of 5-8 reps.

Heavy Row for sets of 5-10 reps.
Thats it for that day.

Sunday (light rep day)

Bench Press for speed(50% of one rep max)

Volume shoulder work,m usually lateral raises, front raises, rear delt raise, etc..) reps 12-15

Volume Tri work(extensions, skulls, etc...) reps are 12-20

Same for lat work.

Works well for us.

I hear it's not best to train shoulders after chest or vise versa. What is your take on this? I personaly do it after each other from time to time and have never had any problems. I honestly don't know.

[A L]

First off DOMS isn't a very good measure of progress. At least not for me. I can get "sore" and not grow.

To me it is very simple. Regardless of rep range you need to be adding either weight or reps to your top set of every exercise... deadlifts to bicep curls. Regardless of how advanced your program is you simply have to add weight or reps to get stronger/bigger. It is really that simple to me...

If you aren't adding workload you aren't getting stronger.. and won't get bigger.

[PeteM]

I don't see anything wrong with training both high and low, same body part in the same week. It's something that I have done.

You said that high for you is 10-20 reps. This is getting to the outside edge of what would be considered hypertrophy and moving more towards a metabolic type of focus. A way to increase calorie burn and mprove some of the metabolic characteristics of the muscle - ability to unload waste products and take up nutrients and O2 - all good things.

Low for you was 5-8 range, personaly I would consider this more of a mid range. Again a different adapatation - this would be more of what would be considered hypertrohy training. For many this is the prime range for adding muscle size.

I would consider low to be 2-5 range, and this is where strength would be built. G-Rex pointed out that as a PL, on their heavy days, working up to 1RM. Main goal being strength development. This is primarly a nurological adapatation, more so then the other two ranges - hypertrophy, physiological adaptations, and the high range, metabolic adaptations.

So which range should you train in considering your goals?

I would suggest that all 3 need to be used, and this should be done by all people training. Now the mix from each of the 3 will differ based on your end goal. A powerlifter would have much more use for the lower range and strength development, where as a body builder would need more hypertrophy type of work in the offseason, but move to a more metabolic type of focus as competition gets closer.

As the three ranges cause different adapatations, there is no reason you cant use different ranges on the same muscle more then once per week. keeping in mind that no training range will work in isolation and there is no such thing as only strength work or only hypertrophy work, there is most certainly spill over.

[Zoofus]

As other have said it's not as simple as high or low, switching or not.

Proper way to think about it is that you have a long-term goal that likely is going to take a long while to get to and needs to be approached intelligently varrying from a number of different directions all of which can't be optimally concentrated on and pushed forward at once. That leads you to a long-term macro overview of training and what needs to happen. The long-term macro plan leads you to your near-term goal or the thing you want to accomplish over the next training cycle say 1-2 months or something. You then create your program as the one that best gets you from current position to near-term goal.

That near-term program needs specific objectives you want to accomplish in specifically chosen lifts, activities, diet etc...Your current state and previous training will then drive some kind of scheme to get a given lift to a target point at the end of this shorter cycle. Reps and sets are the means to that end and even reps/sets may be varried during the week or every 4 weeks or not at all depending on what you need to most efficiently get from point A to B.

Example - if I want to put on 10lbs over 2 months, I'm going to eat enough to gain that weight and drive my squat, bench, and dead up over the course of time. Under a base case maybe that's sets of 5 scaling up each week. A more advanced version might be sets of 5 for 4 weeks followed by sets of 3 and lower volume. But maybe I happen to be coming off a long series of working in the 3-5 rep range, maybe I want to do 8s or 10s. Maybe my next training cycle will focus on a strength goal and I don't want to exclusively be training in high reps and need to maintain some kind of base low rep strength so I don't start from scratch later - that could be triples combined with higher reps. Maybe I just came off a solid strength cycle and want to push muscular endurance and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy for a period - that could be 10-15 reps - after which I have plans to work down in subsequent cycles to reps of 8 then 5s then 3s.

In short - training is more complicated than high or low reps. It's what best fits you at this point in time to get you to a specific near-term goal with a longer-term plan in mind.

I say this not to confuse the question but to make the point that you need to start at the top, work down, and know your training history/experience. Approach it logically and very often the right answer drops out all by itself.

[Cardinal Slin]

Just wanted to thank you all for your time. Some very useful info here.

[G-REX]

I hear it's not best to train shoulders after chest or vise versa. What is your take on this? I personaly do it after each other from time to time and have never had any problems. I honestly don't know.

Hey J, sorry it took me so long to respond to this. Catching up at work from all the weather. From a BB'er standpoint, I could see it making sense. The shoulders are a very important part of the physique and need a day all to themselves in order to hit them properly. You'd want the shoulders to be fresh to handle the heavy weight from your presses and still have something left for your raises and trap movements. Makes sense to me.

From a powerlifting standpoint, they're just another muscle group that contributes to a big bench. We train movements, not muscle. The shoulder girdle is just another part to that movement, so it gets hit with the other muscles on the day of that movement. For powerlifting, the point of training shoulders is more about health and stability. Because of the heavy squatting and shirted benching, the shoulders already take a massive beating. We tend more towards thins like presses and internal/external rotations to keep the shoulder girdle stable.

Again, if I were a BB'er. My shoulders would get a day all to themselves. Heavy seated presses, front raises, lateral raises, barbel/dumbell shrugs, and rear delt work. And I'd try to give myself at least 2 full days of rest between my shoulder day and my bench day.