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sassy69
09-08-2008, 04:44 PM
Grabbed from MD:

1: J Appl Physiol. 2008 Apr;104(4):1045-55. Epub 2008 Feb 14.
Effect of training in the fasted state on metabolic responses during exercise with carbohydrate intake.

De Bock K, Derave W, Eijnde BO, Hesselink MK, Koninckx E, Rose AJ, Schrauwen P, Bonen A, Richter EA, Hespel P.
Research Center for Exercise and Health, F.A.B.E.R. - K.U.Leuven, Tervuursevest 101, B-3001 Leuven Heverlee, Belgium.
Skeletal muscle gene response to exercise depends on nutritional status during and after exercise, but it is unknown whether muscle adaptations to endurance training are affected by nutritional status during training sessions. Therefore, this study investigated the effect of an endurance training program (6 wk, 3 day/wk, 1-2 h, 75% of peak Vo(2)) in moderately active males. They trained in the fasted (F; n = 10) or carbohydrate-fed state (CHO; n = 10) while receiving a standardized diet [65 percent of total energy intake (En) from carbohydrates, 20%En fat, 15%En protein]. Before and after the training period, substrate use during a 2-h exercise bout was determined. During these experimental sessions, all subjects were in a fed condition and received extra carbohydrates (1 g.kg body wt(-1) .h(-1)). Peak Vo(2) (+7%), succinate dehydrogenase activity, GLUT4, and hexokinase II content were similarly increased between F and CHO. Fatty acid binding protein (FABPm) content increased significantly in F (P = 0.007). Intramyocellular triglyceride content (IMCL) remained unchanged in both groups. After training, pre-exercise glycogen content was higher in CHO (545 +/- 19 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.02), but not in F (434 +/- 32 mmol/kg dry wt; P = 0.23). For a given initial glycogen content, F blunted exercise-induced glycogen breakdown when compared with CHO (P = 0.04). Neither IMCL breakdown (P = 0.23) nor fat oxidation rates during exercise were altered by training. Thus short-term training elicits similar adaptations in peak Vo(2) whether carried out in the fasted or carbohydrate-fed state. Although there was a decrease in exercise-induced glycogen breakdown and an increase in proteins involved in fat handling after fasting training, fat oxidation during exercise with carbohydrate intake was not changed.



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Thoughts?

KKAZ
09-08-2008, 05:04 PM
So, is it correct to assume this is saying there is enough stored glycogen in the liver to prevent any benefit from cardio on an empty stomach? I'm slow, help a Brutha out.:help:

P Bo
09-08-2008, 05:19 PM
I'm with KKAZ....I need a translator too please!

sassy69
09-08-2008, 06:41 PM
Its saying the results show it doens't matter whether or not you eat carbs before doing cardio - same level of fat oxidation.

Kap
09-09-2008, 12:47 AM
Thoughts?My thought:

People worry about this petty stuff too much and don't focus enough on their diets. That is where the real difference happens. with all of that said, if I compete again, you can bet your last dollar that I will do early AM, empty stomach cardio. That is what has worked for me in the past, but then again everything else was in line also...diet, training, and supplements.

SBT
09-09-2008, 12:55 AM
My thoughts (upon recent reading):

While doing cardio fasted does allow you to use more direct fat as a fuel source, in the end, it's pretty irrelevant. If you use more fat for fuel during a workout, you tend to use less for the rest of the day (using more carbs). if you use more carbs during a workout, you tend to use less for the rest of the day (using more fat). In the end, it all balances out to mean the same thing.

It doesn't matter how much fat calories you burn during a cardio session if your net energy intake is not lining up with a deficit.

And even if you're in a deficif, for the previously mentioned reasons it really doesn't matter.

In the end, what is of primary importance is how many calories you burned, not where those calories came from. At the end of the day, a 500 calorie deficit is a 500 calorie deficit when it comes to fat loss, regardless of what substrate it came from.

The predominant fuel substrate used during exercise does not play a role in fat loss. Total daily energy expenditure is more important for fat loss than the major fuel used during exercise (Coyle, E.H. Fat Metabolism During Exercise. [Online] Gatorade Sports Science Institute. Reference Link [1999, Mar 25])

bigdamray
09-09-2008, 02:13 PM
When I got up to 264, I was doing 1 hour of fasted cardio per day. All the fasted cardio in the world will not do a darn thing if your diet is not in check. I do fasted cardio because I like it and it makes me feel good for the rest of the day.

macrophage69 alpha
09-09-2008, 04:09 PM
almost certainly this study does not use AM fasted state. (which is different from "fasted" state")

also the duration of the exercise is significant factor here. TWO HOURS.

trivial
09-09-2008, 05:06 PM
I do fasted cardio because I like it and it makes me feel good for the rest of the day.


Ditto. I don't intend to stop it after my comp is over.