Workout routine

[headliner]

All right, I think I need some advice on my routine, I don't have that much flow/logic to my routine, I just made it myself and adjusted it as I've been working out.


Monday and Friday is a write off, leaving my with 5 days a week to workout. couple things:

- If i work back 1 day and chest next, i find my shoulders are sore from pull ups, lowering my bench, and vise versa
- I threw DL's on Saturday because this current schedule, legs day is before back day, and doing DL's right after a leg day doesn't seem right, think I can handle the SLDs though.

This is what I came up with thus far:

Monday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Tuesday - School 9-4pm Chest
Wednesday - School 9-4pm Legs
Thursday -School 9-4pm Back
Friday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Saturday - Shoulders
Sunday- Work 12-6pm Arms

-----------------------------------------
MONDAY
Off

-----------------------------------------
TUESDAY
Chest
(switch flat and incline starting position each week)

Push ups (warmup)

x5 Flat bench press
x3 Machine flys
x4 incline bench press
x3 Dips
x4 Cable chest press

----------------------
WEDNESDAY
Legs

5min bike 100 rpm (warm up)
1 sets leg ext (warm up)

x5 squat
x4 leg press

x3 laying leg curl
x3 stand calf raises
x3 lunges

-----------------------------------------
THURSDAY
Back

x1 chinups (warm up)
x3 Pull ups (warm up)

x4 cable row
x3 Lat pulldown (wide or narrow)
x4 SLD
x3 Back ext
x4 Face Pulls
x2 single arm dumbbell row

---------------------------------
FRIDAY
Off

----------
SATURDAY
Shoulders, Deadlifts

x5 shoulder press
x3 front dumbbell raise
x3 bent over vert raise
x3 upright row

x3 shrugs
x5 dead lift
x3 sitting calf raises

----------------------
SUNDAY
Arms

x1 close grip bp (light set, warm up)
x3 tricep push downs
x3 tricep extensions
x3 skull crushers

x1 chin up (warm up)
x3 Preacher curl
x3 Hammer curl
x3 single arm dumbbell curl

x3 behind the back wrist curl
x3 reverse barbell curl

-----------------------------------------


Someone wanna give me some advise? This plan has been/will work for me, but I feel I'm missing something.

[headliner]

Anyone want to give me some direction?

[Evidence]

People are very fast to put up what they are currently doing in the gym , with exercises and sets and then asking people for advice. It's good to want to better your program and ask others for help, but it's almost impossible to address your needs without getting more information. Your goals as to what you are training for is very important. Sometimes you can answer your own questions by examining what you are working towards. If you are a basketball player and your weightroom routine mimics what BigDamnRay is doing, then that's just not practical. It doesn't mean he's wrong, but you see where I am going with this. People here train for a wide range of things such as sport, competitions, just overall well being and vanity. You must identify your purpose, then we can tweak this program and get you moving into the proper direction.

Give us a background in terms of activity, years training, your philosophies, any injuries in the past or present, any health problems or issues? Hope this helps and lots of good people here will be able to help you out.

[headliner]

Ahh sorry no background info!

Current Stats: 170lbs ish, 6'0, 19 years old
Started: 130lbs, 6'0, 16 years old
Goal: Bulk to 200+lbs

Carrier goal: Recently just left the army reserves to pursue fire fighting carrier, want to continue to bulk up/gain strength. I know fire fighting is more so heavy endurance, but that won't be a problem for me.

So what I need is a good bulking routine, anything else you need to know just ask!

[Evidence]

Eat, Train, Sleep, Repeat. Just be very consistent. There is no sexy answer here or magic program. Keep your routine simple and keep your time in the gym around 45 minutes to an hour. Identify your weaknesses. Look yourself in the mirror and be honest with yourself and ask, what do I suck at? And what you answer, crush those lifts in those areas. Spend a lot of time reading training theories and see what you can take from a program like a wetside barbell splilt. They have great articles on there, that kind of routine would really help if your goals are to get bigger and stronger. (Westside Barbell®"Often Imitated but never duplicated" (http://www.westside-barbell.com))

Lots of great information at EliteFTS - Powerlifting and Strength Training Products and Knowledge for Lifters, Athletes, Coaches, and Trainers (http://www.elitefts.com)
They have a Q and A pannel with some great guys in a lot of aspects of training and rehab. Just chose something and give it a chance. Maybe transition some of your days there into one. I see you like to train each bodypart seperately. Maybe look into doing two or three things in a session and group them together. As you progress your training will progress. It's going to be a long journey. We're just scratching the surface here. Good luck my man.

[getjacked]

at your training experience your routine is just fine. i use a bodypart split to this day and ive been training for about 7 years and have deadlifted 700 doing a bodypart routine. i think that a major mistake people make is constant changing of their program, and focusing too much on routine routine routine and finding the perfect routine. before changing your program at your level, look at the most important aspect of growth which is food and then proper rest. you can always improve upon the following:

-food intake
-rest
-intensity/effort in the gym

before changing your program, change your food and rest. you can try altering rep ranges.. what i do is hit muy first 2 compound moves heavy and hard. so, for example, if i'm doing chest i'll do inclines up to a heavy set of 5 to 8, then after that i'll do another compound chest move heavy and hard, and then i'll finish off with more isolation stuff such as fly's, cable crossovers, etc.

[neo22]

All right, I think I need some advice on my routine, I don't have that much flow/logic to my routine, I just made it myself and adjusted it as I've been working out.


Monday and Friday is a write off, leaving my with 5 days a week to workout. couple things:

- If i work back 1 day and chest next, i find my shoulders are sore from pull ups, lowering my bench, and vise versa
- I threw DL's on Saturday because this current schedule, legs day is before back day, and doing DL's right after a leg day doesn't seem right, think I can handle the SLDs though.

This is what I came up with thus far:

Monday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Tuesday - School 9-4pm Chest
Wednesday - School 9-4pm Legs
Thursday -School 9-4pm Back
Friday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Saturday - Shoulders
Sunday- Work 12-6pm Arms




Someone wanna give me some advise? This plan has been/will work for me, but I feel I'm missing something.
Heres my ADVICE, idk how you are in school but can't spell.
Tues = back
wednes = chest
thurs = legs
sat = shoulder
sun = arms
This will give you more rest between your back and leg day.

[headliner]

- If i work back 1 day and chest next, i find my shoulders are sore from pull ups, lowering my bench, and vise versa

Thats why I dont have back/chest day back to back. Does anyone else notice this when lifting, or am I doing it wrong?

Form: wrists straight, back little arch (not major), pulling shoulders back/pinching blades together, bar comes down around nipple line, 6 count down 3 count up.

My lift arnt major either, Max 1RM on bench is 180lbs, I usually work with starting little less then 1 plate, and finishing with little over 1 plate.

[headliner]

at your training experience your routine is just fine. i use a bodypart split to this day and ive been training for about 7 years and have deadlifted 700 doing a bodypart routine. i think that a major mistake people make is constant changing of their program, and focusing too much on routine routine routine and finding the perfect routine. before changing your program at your level, look at the most important aspect of growth which is food and then proper rest. you can always improve upon the following:

-food intake
-rest
-intensity/effort in the gym

before changing your program, change your food and rest. you can try altering rep ranges.. what i do is hit muy first 2 compound moves heavy and hard. so, for example, if i'm doing chest i'll do inclines up to a heavy set of 5 to 8, then after that i'll do another compound chest move heavy and hard, and then i'll finish off with more isolation stuff such as fly's, cable crossovers, etc.

Thats just it, my food/rest are a lot better then what I'm doing in the gym. I know nutrition is the key to body building, and I work with that. Diet(just starting) is 3500~ cal/day with 400~ carbs, 220~ protein 110~ fat. Sleep, I take melatonin before bed, getting 9-10hours sleep/day.

I've always been one of those guys that didnt focus that much on what I do in the gym, rather what I do when I'm out. I'd like to add a little more attention to the gym aspect.

[bluetwistedsteel]

My opinion is this - it's not what I do but it's what I would reccomend based on your age, size and schedule.

Stick to the most compound lifts and bust your ass with those. I'd drop arm day, you just don't need it. Your arms will grow doing most compound movements. You're not trying to fine tune anything, you're trying to grow. 30lbs is a hell of a lot and will be tougher than going from 130 to 170. So here's my advice:

Squats x5 (pick the rep range that works but I'd probably say 10, 8, 8, 6, 4 (these are working sets)

Deads x5 same rep range as squats

Bench x5

Cleans x4

Forget SLDL's they just aren't going to make you grow, same with maching fly's. No need for front raises - bench will do plenty for front delts.
Stick to these 4 lifts for 3 months hitting it 3x per week. Eat clean but eat big, SLEEP (min 8 hours and if you have time take an hour nap). You'll grow bro. The key is to spend you energy doing things that ignite growth. Leg curls and those types of movements definitely have their place but they aren't even close to squats and deads. Try to progressively work your cals up to 4500-5000 cals per day.

[Pan]

Thats why I dont have back/chest day back to back. Does anyone else notice this when lifting, or am I doing it wrong?

Form: wrists straight, back little arch (not major), pulling shoulders back/pinching blades together, bar comes down around nipple line, 6 count down 3 count up.

My lift arnt major either, Max 1RM on bench is 180lbs, I usually work with starting little less then 1 plate, and finishing with little over 1 plate.

Ok firstly, scrap this. Time under tension is worthless. Just do the reps and stop worrying about feeling the pump or whatever. On bench, tuck your elbows into your sides a little bit to prevent doing any damage to your shoulders, and lower it to around your sternum.

bluetwistedsteel had some good advice there. Way too much fluff in your routine. It might work, but only for people who have a good base. Get stronger, go after that 220 bench, but more importantly improve that squat. You can pack way more meat on your legs and ass than you can on your biceps inner peak or medial deltoid.

I think you'd do well to take a look at another thread in this forum http://www.afboard.com/forum/fitness-training/26103-madcow-training-questions.html

Another member was talking about the 5x5. Not necessary, just like all that other crap in your routine isn't necessary. Save that curls for when you have some more meat on your bones. I wouldn't worry about macros and all that crap. If you want to get bigger just eat more food. Think calories, not grams. Shoot for 4 big meals a day, with 1,000 kcal per meal. Drink whole milk and chocolate milk, eat bacon and cheese, dont be afraid of getting a bit podgey, because if you're struggling to put on weight it won't take long at all to get any excess weight off again.



Train, eat, grow

[headliner]

Alright, thanks for all the help!

I took everything into consideration, but I'd like to keep arms day, and ill stick with machine flys/front delt raises but put less focus on them. I did decide to change the routine, to fit pwr cleans in there.

Is this looking a little better? I removed warm ups on post (EG starting with light pull ups on back day) just want help on main part of routine






Monday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - Chest
Thursday - Back
Friday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Saturday - Shoulders
Sunday- Work 12-6pm Arms

-----------------------------------------
MONDAY
Off

-----------------------------------------
TUESDAY
Legs

x5 squat (10, 8, 8, 6, 4)
x4 leg press

x3 laying leg curl
x3 walking db lunges
x3 stand calf raises

----------------------
WEDNESDAY
Chest

x5 Flat bench press 10-8-8-6-4
x3 Machine flys
x4 incline bench press
x3 Dips
x4 Cable chest press

----------------------------------------
THURSDAY
Back

x5 dead lift (10-8-8-6-4)

x3 cable row
x3 Lat pull-down
x3 Back ext
x3 Face Pulls
x3 single arm dumbbell row

---------------------------------
FRIDAY
Off

----------
SATURDAY
Shoulders

x4 Pwer Cleans (10-8-6-4)
x3 sitting calf raises

x3 shoulder press
x3 bent over vert raise
x3 upright row
x2 front dumbbell raise

x3 shrugs

----------------------
SUNDAY
Arms

x3 tricep push downs
x3 tricep extensions
x3 skull crushers

x3 Preacher curl
x3 Hammer curl
x3 single arm dumbbell curl

x2 behind the back wrist curl
x2 reverse barbell curl

-----------------------------------------

[bluetwistedsteel]

Alright, thanks for all the help!

I took everything into consideration, but I'd like to keep arms day, and ill stick with machine flys/front delt raises but put less focus on them. I did decide to change the routine, to fit pwr cleans in there.

Is this looking a little better? I removed warm ups on post (EG starting with light pull ups on back day) just want help on main part of routine






Monday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - Chest
Thursday - Back
Friday - School 9-4pm Work 5-11pm
Saturday - Shoulders
Sunday- Work 12-6pm Arms

-----------------------------------------
MONDAY
Off

-----------------------------------------
TUESDAY
Legs

x5 squat (10, 8, 8, 6, 4)
x4 leg press

x3 laying leg curl
x3 walking db lunges
x3 stand calf raises

----------------------
WEDNESDAY
Chest

x5 Flat bench press 10-8-8-6-4
x3 Machine flys
x4 incline bench press
x3 Dips
x4 Cable chest press

----------------------------------------
THURSDAY
Back

x5 dead lift (10-8-8-6-4)

x3 cable row
x3 Lat pull-down
x3 Back ext
x3 Face Pulls
x3 single arm dumbbell row

---------------------------------
FRIDAY
Off

----------
SATURDAY
Shoulders

x4 Pwer Cleans (10-8-6-4)
x3 sitting calf raises

x3 shoulder press
x3 bent over vert raise
x3 upright row
x2 front dumbbell raise

x3 shrugs

----------------------
SUNDAY
Arms

x3 tricep push downs
x3 tricep extensions
x3 skull crushers

x3 Preacher curl
x3 Hammer curl
x3 single arm dumbbell curl

x2 behind the back wrist curl
x2 reverse barbell curl

-----------------------------------------

Trust me bro, I know what I'm talking about. At your level of strength and musculature you don't need to be doing 1 body part per day. You're wasting time and more importantly EFFORT with wrist curls, reverse barbell curls, preacher curls and tri pressdowns. This is a routine right out of Muscle and Fitness. These are not the most effective. The key to growth is to stick to doing things that will make you grow. Preacher curls do not make you grow, neither do hammer curls (let me put a qualifier on that statement - they aren't useless, they are just useless pertaining to your goal). Hitting legs once per week isn't going to get max growth. Eventually you'll find that once per week is sufficient but you're not at that place yet. Leg curls are a waste of time for you, calf raises are a waste of time for you. Whoever told you that you need all of these movements doesn't know what they're talking about. I am a hard gainer. Fortunately I wanted it bad enough and figured out what works and what causes growth and strength increase and headed down that path. I now do more movements but at your stage you need 4-5 exercises and you need to do them 3x per week. There are many ways to skin a cat bro and you'll get a million different thoughts from different people. My advice is to listen to bluetwistedsteel. lol. Seriosly bro, I have taken people that were your age and size, convinced them to forget everything thay've read in magazines and stick to the 4 studliest, bulk building, strength building, puke inducung exercises and BUILD A BASE. The results they got came faster and were more significant by a mile than when they were going with the fluff filled routine. Drop every lift that is attached to a machine or cable for 3 months, drop front raises, drop all that shit. Give it 3 months of bust your balls effort and eat - you'll grow and get stroger. Not to bust your chops at all bro because everyone has been there BUT, you've been lifting for 3 years and your max bench is 180. Do what I'm teeling you and you'll be hitting 2 wheels in 90 days.

[Evidence]

Trust me bro, I know what I'm talking about. At your level of strength and musculature you don't need to be doing 1 body part per day. You're wasting time and more importantly EFFORT with wrist curls, reverse barbell curls, preacher curls and tri pressdowns. This is a routine right out of Muscle and Fitness. These are not the most effective.

I agree bluetwistedsteel. The body is much more accomodating than we think and give credit for. It doesn't neccessarily mean what you are doing is incorrect, but it's time to approach your training at a different level. As getjacked said earlier, it's unneccesary to be constantly changing programs around, that is true. But some change is required in order to progress. I truely feel that if you work on your weaknesses and mix things up to as blue said, eliminate much of the isolation exercises and work on more compound exercises, you will be surprised at where you are going to take yourself. Get off the machines and what not and work with a squat rack, bars and dumbells. Utilize pull ups, dips and push ups with your weight routine. You're going to get a wide range of advice, it's up to you to make it happen and piece it together. Good luck man.

[headliner]

Alright man, this just goes against everything I THOUGHT i knew about bodybuilding, sorry I was being hesitant in dropping those exercises.

What is it that they would do then at my stage, give me definition?

Anyways, I'll try it out, what have a got to lose besides time, I'll try this out for 90 Days. I thought doing a solid leg day, another day of pwr cleans and another day of dead lifts would be hitting the legs enough/week.

Want to give me a 5 day/week exercise program? Following the days have available...

OFF
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
OFF
Saturday
Sunday

[fite4$]

I wish someone had given me this advice at 19. I wasted years jacking around trying to grow on concentration curls and leg extensions. Listen to the big boys if you want to be a big boy.

[headliner]

I'm all excited now... I always knew what I was doing in the gym wasnt right, but every magazine you read/everyone I talked to said to do all those and like you said they were right, just not for my goal. I did hear of the bill Starr routine but i didnt pay attention to it, didn't like the rep range.

Would that work for me? Pwr Cleans and Squats in the same day is going to kill me, also, no deads?


(the weights used are only examples):
Monday, heavy day:
squat: 5 x 135, 5 x 165, 5 x 185, 5 x 205, 5 x 225
bench press: 5 x 135, 5 x 155, 5 x 175, 5 x 190, 5 x 200
power clean: 5 x 115, 5 x 135, 5 x 145, 5 x 155, 5 x 165
Wednesday, light day:
squat: 5 x 135, 5 x 150, 5 x 160, 5 x 170, 5 x 180
bench press: 5 x 135, 5 x 135, 5 x 145, 5 x 155, 5 x 160
power clean: 5 x 115, 5 x 115, 5 x 115, 5 x 125, 5 x 135
Friday, medium day:
squat: 5 x 135, 5 x 155, 5 x 175, 5 x 190, 5 x 205
bench press: 5 x 135, 5 x 150, 5 x 160, 5 x 170, 5 x 180
power clean: 5 x 115, 5 x 125, 5 x 135, 5 x 145, 5 x 150

What do you think? Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday would work perfect for me too. The biggest thing for me is going to be spending so much less time in the gym...

[bluetwistedsteel]

I'm all excited now... I always knew what I was doing in the gym wasnt right, but every magazine you read/everyone I talked to said to do all those and like you said they were right, just not for my goal. I did hear of the bill Starr routine but i didnt pay attention to it, didn't like the rep range.

Would that work for me? Pwr Cleans and Squats in the same day is going to kill me, also, no deads?


(the weights used are only examples):
Monday, heavy day:
squat: 5 x 135, 5 x 165, 5 x 185, 5 x 205, 5 x 225
bench press: 5 x 135, 5 x 155, 5 x 175, 5 x 190, 5 x 200
power clean: 5 x 115, 5 x 135, 5 x 145, 5 x 155, 5 x 165
Wednesday, light day:
squat: 5 x 135, 5 x 150, 5 x 160, 5 x 170, 5 x 180
bench press: 5 x 135, 5 x 135, 5 x 145, 5 x 155, 5 x 160
power clean: 5 x 115, 5 x 115, 5 x 115, 5 x 125, 5 x 135
Friday, medium day:
squat: 5 x 135, 5 x 155, 5 x 175, 5 x 190, 5 x 205
bench press: 5 x 135, 5 x 150, 5 x 160, 5 x 170, 5 x 180
power clean: 5 x 115, 5 x 125, 5 x 135, 5 x 145, 5 x 150

What do you think? Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday would work perfect for me too. The biggest thing for me is going to be spending so much less time in the gym...

I'd go like this - you're only going to stick to this for 3 months so you'll be ok going heazvy every dy.

Mon
Squats x5
Deads x5
Flt bench x5
Cleans x4

do the same on Wed and Fri except for bench - go incline on Wed.

It's a very simple routine and should tazke you an hour tops. Eat and you'll grow on this routine though bro. Just remind yourself - more is not better, BETTER is better.

[headliner]

Don't mean to question you I know you know x1000 more then me but... Doing Squat/cleans/Deads heavy would wreck my legs, then doing them again in 48hours... there's no way I'd recover in time. Wouldn't that be overtraining - which would be slowing down my progress?

[bluetwistedsteel]

Don't mean to question you I know you know x1000 more then me but... Doing Squat/cleans/Deads heavy would wreck my legs, then doing them again in 48hours... there's no way I'd recover in time. Wouldn't that be overtraining - which would be slowing down my progress?

This is just my opinion but if you eat enough and sleep enough it is very, very hard to over train. Especially over a 3 month period. Longer than 3 months MAYBE it catches up to you. 3 months or less, you're going to grow. Again, don't believe everything you read. You're young - hitting the heavy lifts every other day is going to be fine. If you really think you need more recovery switch to every 72 hours. My belief is though that after a couple weeks your body will adjust to the more frequent work. I had my best gains ever with this routine. BUT, you need to get those cals so be sure and eat.

[headliner]

This is just my opinion but if you eat enough and sleep enough it is very, very hard to over train. Especially over a 3 month period. Longer than 3 months MAYBE it catches up to you. 3 months or less, you're going to grow. Again, don't believe everything you read. You're young - hitting the heavy lifts every other day is going to be fine. If you really think you need more recovery switch to every 72 hours. My belief is though that after a couple weeks your body will adjust to the more frequent work. I had my best gains ever with this routine. BUT, you need to get those cals so be sure and eat.

With what kind of rep range, the 5-5-5-5-5 or your 10-8-8-6-4

[getjacked]

if you are going to use a full body 3x a week thing, then read up on bill starr and use his actual routine or a variation of it. there is built in periodization to help deal with consistent squatting, pulling, and pushing issues.

[bluetwistedsteel]

With what kind of rep range, the 5-5-5-5-5 or your 10-8-8-6-4

Depends on your starting point. Some people like to warm up then start fairly light and work up. Others like to warm up and go fairly heavy from the get go. I think 10, 8, 8, 6, 4 works pretty well for most people but probably no better than 8,8,6,6,6 or any other rep range that's reasonable. Load is key IMO but so is total volume. You just need to find what works best for you so mess around with the numbers and see what you like.

[fite4$]

I've tried the 5x5, but prefer to work up. Your goal should be to add a few pounds to the bar on your top set(s) every week. 5 lbs every week or 2 adds up to some serious gains over the course of a year.

[headliner]

Someone showed me this bill starr routine... slighty different..

ww.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/manrodt4.htm
(add another w in front of that address, won't let me post link, to low post count)

Monday – Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Bench – 5 sets of 5
Powercleans – 5 sets of 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups

Wednesday – Light Day
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Incline Bench – 4 sets of 5
High Pulls – 4 sets of 5
Sit-ups – 3 sets

Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Powercleans – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Weighted Dips – 3 sets of 5-8
Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each


Hows that look? Or am I taking a step back in my progress of throwing all those wrist curls etc out the window. Because with this one I do get an arm day in there, nothing to big, and I 2 days to rest for it before my Heavy day on Monday.

[bluetwistedsteel]

Someone showed me this bill starr routine... slighty different..

ww.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/manrodt4.htm
(add another w in front of that address, won't let me post link, to low post count)

Monday – Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Bench – 5 sets of 5
Powercleans – 5 sets of 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups

Wednesday – Light Day
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Incline Bench – 4 sets of 5
High Pulls – 4 sets of 5
Sit-ups – 3 sets

Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Powercleans – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Weighted Dips – 3 sets of 5-8
Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each


Hows that look? Or am I taking a step back in my progress of throwing all those wrist curls etc out the window. Because with this one I do get an arm day in there, nothing to big, and I 2 days to rest for it before my Heavy day on Monday.

I like this overall although I would eliminate the ab work. No need. You're going to get plenty of abs doing squats and deads. I could count on 2 hands the number of times I've done abs in the past 3 years and my core is probably the strongest comparative area for me. Also, I'm not a big proponant of "light" days. Go heavy or at least relatively heavy and trust your age and diet to help you recover quick enough.

[headliner]

Perfect, this is what I'll do then, really like the logic behind this, good explanation of what to do on that link.

"On Friday, the first four sets are the same as they were on Monday. The fifth set, done for three reps, should be a jump of about 2.5% over what you did for your fifth set on Monday."

Thank you very much for direction, it'd have taken me another year to bench 2 plates doing what I was doing. I can't wait to see the results of this program, will post my progress on this thread in a couple of weeks.

Curious, that you in your Av?

[bluetwistedsteel]

Perfect, this is what I'll do then, really like the logic behind this, good explanation of what to do on that link.

"On Friday, the first four sets are the same as they were on Monday. The fifth set, done for three reps, should be a jump of about 2.5% over what you did for your fifth set on Monday."

Thank you very much for direction, it'd have taken me another year to bench 2 plates doing what I was doing. I can't wait to see the results of this program, will post my progress on this thread in a couple of weeks.

Curious, that you in your Av?

Looking forward to seeing your progress. And yes, that's me in my avi. I'm a little leaner right now and about 5lbs lighter.

[getjacked]

I like this overall although I would eliminate the ab work. No need. You're going to get plenty of abs doing squats and deads. I could count on 2 hands the number of times I've done abs in the past 3 years and my core is probably the strongest comparative area for me. Also, I'm not a big proponant of "light" days. Go heavy or at least relatively heavy and trust your age and diet to help you recover quick enough.

no disrespect intended but i disagree. the point of the starr routine is that it has periodization planned into it, even if it's not very complicated. squatting, pushing and deadlifting heavy 3x a week is probably not the best idea for the vast majority of people. the starr routine has been tried and tested and is very effective.. its been used on athletes that have better genetics IRT recovery than anybody on this board and they still use heavy, light, medium type scheme (or something similar).

i also think that ab work is fine to do. i remember i was msising 675 pulls over and over and it was due to weak abs. i started doing ab pulldowns 2x a week and side bends 1x a week and pulled 700 about 2 moths after. i dont think theres any harm in doing some weighted ab work.

other than that i agree with your posts

[bluetwistedsteel]

no disrespect intended but i disagree. the point of the starr routine is that it has periodization planned into it, even if it's not very complicated. squatting, pushing and deadlifting heavy 3x a week is probably not the best idea for the vast majority of people. the starr routine has been tried and tested and is very effective.. its been used on athletes that have better genetics IRT recovery than anybody on this board and they still use heavy, light, medium type scheme (or something similar).

i also think that ab work is fine to do. i remember i was msising 675 pulls over and over and it was due to weak abs. i started doing ab pulldowns 2x a week and side bends 1x a week and pulled 700 about 2 moths after. i dont think theres any harm in doing some weighted ab work.

other than that i agree with your posts

I feel you on the light mid heavy deal. Whaqt I was reccomending is a relatively short time period - 90 days. If he goes heavy 3x per week for 12 weeks I think he'll be fine and he'll grow. Based on his posts he doesn't seem to be into the power lifting scene so I was just giving him advice on pure growth in a short amount of time. The deal with abs is just a personal belief for me. My abs are relatively good and very good for my age (41). I never do any direct ab work BUT, I squat as heavy as I can and I dead lift until I'm on the verge of puking. I believe that is what's given me good ab development.
I do like the Starr routine and think it's effective and very well though out. For the poster, I was really trying to get him off of the one body part per day and all of the fluff exercises. Core lifts are what count and even a body builder REALLY doesn't need more IMO. Heavy back, chest and shoulder work will = big arms. That's why I don't do any direct arm work. I just look at what I see (does that make any sense? lol). I don't see dudes with jacked shoulders and small arms and I don't see dudes with huge arms and underdeveloped shoulders. AND I've never seen anybody that has kick ass abs that doesn't squat unless it's a skinny dude. If this kid takes your advice or mine OR finds something in between he's going to get there. If he follows Muscle and Fitness he's going to spin his wheels.

[Pan]

Hmm...Bluetwistedsteel, you've had some great points in here, and have made very valid contributions. However I must agree with Getjacked. Going heavy 3 times a week with the same 4 exercises done everyday (deadlift especially) is going to be very tough to do, 12 weeks is plenty of time to burn yourself out. Programs like the 5x5 and 3x5 have either alternating days or days with different exercises which varies the loading on particular muscle groups. I'm not advocating cookie cutters for everyone but for the purposes of beginners (which IMO the original poster still is) simple routines that focus on progression and the meat and potatoes exercises will work great.

Headliner, you won't overtrain by squatting 3x week. It's all a matter of conditioning. Your body is used to blasting your legs with high volume throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at it once a week and doing nothing for 7 days until the next session. Multiple times per week with the volume spread out over each session will take about 1 or 2 weeks to get used to, but as with anything, the body will adapt and you won't be sore going into every workout.

You wont need 5 days per week, you wouldn't be able to do it. 3 days a week is fine to start off with, you can make great gains off that for months and months before you need to think about adding more volume in the form of another day. Like I said cookie cutter isn't the be all and end all, but I really do believe the 3x5 is a very simple program that allows for great advances in strength to be made. Volume is controlled, and progression is made every workout.

I'm doing it myself right now and there's nothing better to get your strength up. Once I stall I'm going to do some pseudo periodisation and change the reps to 3x8, still keep the progression going every session, then after 3 weeks or so I'll change it up to 3x3 with less volume and heavier weight. All other varibles kept the same. I really do believe that while it is simple it is also very versatile and you can milk a lot of gains from it before you need to think about trying a different routine altogether.

The worst thing you can do is chop and change constantly. Choose what you want to do, and stick it out, if things plateau tweak it a little, but don't change the whole routine

[Evidence]

I'm doing it myself right now and there's nothing better to get your strength up. Once I stall I'm going to do some pseudo periodisation and change the reps to 3x8, still keep the progression going every session, then after 3 weeks or so I'll change it up to 3x3 with less volume and heavier weight. All other varibles kept the same. I really do believe that while it is simple it is also very versatile and you can milk a lot of gains from it before you need to think about trying a different routine altogether.

Pan, when you switch from a 3x5 to a 3x8, does the weight stay the same? You mentioned if you feel you might be stalling, do you make this change to challenge yourself without dropping the weight just going for a few more reps? Then going to a 3x3 with less volume and heavier weight? I was just trying to make sure I read this right that's all? Hope all is well boss.

[Pan]

No. The weight would be scaled back to accomodate the higher reps. I mentioned that it's like pseudo-periodisation. It's similar to the volume and intensity phase of the advanced 5x5 template. Instead of increasing the sets from 3x5 to 5x5 I'd increase the reps and lower the weight, sort of serving as a deload, and a bit more hypertrophy. Then increasing the weight a few kilos/pounds and peak with 3x3 for a few weeks and shifting the focus to more neural work. After this I'd try to get back on track with 3x5.

I just don't feel it's necessary to immediately jump onto the intermediate stages of the 5x5 without totally exhausting the 3x5 template. Good to see a pic up my man, nice to put a face to the user :)

[Evidence]

Thanks. I wasn't questioning your rationale there at all, I just think that i was on two days with minimal sleep and was having a hard time processing you rpost. Thanks for clearing up what you already said.

[Photobear]

Twisted,

Thanks for all the info. Damn you have got me seriously pumped up about going after this routine. Quick, intense, effective, what's not to like.

Thanks for stoking the fire.

PB