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Monster
05-10-2004, 05:37 PM
Forgive my getting on a soapbox again... but I work with a group of ultra conservative types whos views of the world come from fundamentalist christian newsfeeds, so I have very few opprotunities to speak out.

We as a group are among the more forward thinking people in the country (and world) so please indulge me in the occaisional "current events" post. As you know, popular media, though it is always refered to as the "liberal media", is loath to report on issues of real substance. I however spend a lot of time looking at alternate news sources (foriegn press and such) and keeping copies of things of interest.
So Id like to present you with todays "Moment Of Freedom".
Freedom from the pap we are fed, freedom from the brainwashing we recieve.

I'll just post the story and maybe say a few words after it... form your own opinions.

Thank you in advance, because I am driven nearly to insanity each day listening to people discuss how weapons of mass destruction WERE found, and it was covered up by liberals as a means to discredit president bush because he is "pro-family".
So anyway, thanks for indulging me.

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For the first time since the Vietnam War, a university has been ordered to turn over records concerning an anti-war program on campus to a federal grand jury. Four anti-war activists have also been subpoenaed to appear before that same grand jury on February 10. On top of this, the university has been issued a gag-order, preventing it from saying anything about the whole sordid affair.

What so provoked the ire of the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Ashcroft gang was a conference on November 15, 2003, on the Drake University campus titled “Stop the Occupation! Bring the Iowa Guard Home!” The conference was followed the next day by a righteous demonstration at the headquarters of the Iowa National Guard in Johnston, Iowa. This is precisely the kind of action the times call for if we are going to stop the government’s juggernaut of war and repression.

Stung by popular resistance, the government issued a subpoena on February 3 to Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa, calling for the turning over all records and documents in the possession of Drake University relating to the anti-war conference held on campus. The conference was sponsored by the Drake Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild (NLG).

The subpoena commands the university to turn over all records “relating to the scheduling of the conference,” the identity of all “persons that actually attended the meeting, the identity of the officers of the Drake chapter of the NLG,” all “meeting agenda or annual reports of this organization filed with the University since January 1, 2002,” and all “records of Drake University campus security reflecting any observations made of the November 15, 2003 meeting, including any records of persons in charge or control of the meeting, and any records of attendees of the meeting.”

In other words, the university is being commanded to act as an arm of the state in spying on political dissent (the assumption is made that the campus cops already did so!) and it is ordered not make any public comment or protest about it.

The Grand Jury Is a Tool of Repression

The popular illusion is that grand juries exist to protect citizens from malicious prosecution by the state, by hearing the state’s evidence in private to ascertain if there is sufficient reason for a trial to be held. In the 1950s and 60s, however, grand juries were regularly used to both harass political dissenters and threaten people with being sent to jail if they do not snitch on their associates in secret proceedings. For example, baby doctor Benjamin Spock and Yale chaplain William Sloan Coffin were indicted by a grand jury for conspiracy to obstruct the draft after they had signed a statement against the Vietnam war and the draft.

Grand jury testimony used to be secret. Now under the USA Patriot Act, “secret” grand jury testimony can be shared with the FBI, CIA, and other agencies asserting an interest in an “anti-terrorism” investigation, but witnesses cannot get a transcript to prove what they did or did not say. So what goes on behind the closed doors is only a secret from the movements of resistance, not from the political police.

When you appear before a grand jury, you may not be accompanied by your attorney, there are no public spectators, and the federal attorney asks the questions. You can -- and should -- assert your Fifth Amendment right not to testify. But you cannot do this selectively. That is, once you begin answering questions, you must answer them all or go to jail. Finally, the government can strip you of your Fifth Amendment protection by giving you immunity from prosecution for what you say. If this happens, you must tell the government snoops what they want to know or go to jail.

Too often people subpoenaed think they can outfox the grand jury and “find out” what the investigation is really after. This is a very big mistake. The trained federal attorney has no intention of tipping the government’s hand. If you give testimony -- even seemingly innocuous testimony -- it can be used after you leave the room to “corroborate” a bogus story being fed to the grand jury. Also, if your associates are later indicted, you have no way of proving that it was not on the basis of your testimony. The watchword in dealing with the agents of repression is always DON’T TALK.

The Politics of Repression

This sudden resurgence of federal grand juries against antiwar protests highlights some ugly trends and dangerous possibilities. Besides the chilling of dissent against the U.S.’s “war on the world” by threatening people with grand jury subpoenas, there is a larger pattern of a grab for power by the federal government as concentrated in the executive branch. First of all, why is the federal government involved at all?

There is a move underway to paint anti-war protest as illegal support for “terrorism” under the USA Patriot Act and it raises the specter of using anti-dissent federal laws from World War I that are still on the books. Those laws sought to criminalize the promotion of “disaffection” among the armed forces or impede military recruitment. The Sedition and Espionage Acts were used during that period to jail hundreds of antiwar activists and ban anti-war publications from the U.S. mail.

What we are seeing is a pattern of selectively “federalizing” local law enforcement, literally making “a federal case” out of local dissent, and creating federal “dissent verboten” zones around the President and federal institutions.

Finally, colleges and universities have historically been integral to movements for rights and social progress. In attacking a university the government seeks to wield its tremendous power to shut down avenues of questioning and facilities for the organization of protest. Added to this is a totally unjustified gag order of a type that has been made “standard operating procedure” in the USA Patriot Act.


********************

You have people worrying about losing our right to bear arms? Christ, we're losing our right to peaceful assembly and free speach!


...so hurry up and plead the fifth, because you cant plead the first.
-RATM


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Monsterland Is (NOT)Open Again!!! (http://68.43.66.69:66/monsterland.htm) (dont say you werent warned...)

"Trying is the first step towards failure."
http://www.bodo.com/simpsons/zhomerb.gif "Well, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is... never try."

archive_Ulter
05-10-2004, 06:35 PM
Most of this I already knew. On the one hand I want to be upset about it because this is not the way it's supposed to be in this country. On the other hand I grew up getting beat by cops and seeing my friends receive the same treatment. I had police kick in my door and search my apartment and leave without a word or warrant. God forbid you should say something about it or file a complaint. You'd have to move.
I have seen first hand how the FBI will rig evidence against a mobster or entrap one. When I saw it I understood why they did it. This guy killed an FBI agent in Portland and burned his body at a funeral home incinerator. He was Russian mafia in the early 90's. So this just seems to me like the way it is.
This is digressing but... If anyone is following the Soprano's you may have noticed that they are portraying the FBI as tacky, foul mouthed, vengence driven, people with no better respect for the rules than Tony. This is true. You can't believe the way they talk at first because you're used to the poster boy in a MIB suit that media gives you.
Sorry Monster

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein

Monster
05-10-2004, 06:54 PM
No, no.. I agree.
I was subject to the same treatment, but I was involved in criminal enterprises and sort of felt that they were extreme because we were extreme. Not that that makes it right for them to do, but I guess its a twisted type of logic??? Im sure you understand exactly what I mean...

Detroit is a weird place. Even most of the people living in and around Detroit dont have any idea what goes on... Detroit is portrayed as having a lot of random violence and "senseless killings", but the truth is that there is an extremely strong mob element, the difference being that it is a "Black Mob" element, the Italian Mafia tried to get a foot hold in Detoit and never really did, there were very violent wars being fought when thaqt all was taking place. Hell, as a former Chicago boy you probobly would know most of the gangs involved. We saw a large influx of Chicago gangs when I was about 16 or 17. I ended up falling in with a big group of Vice Lords that came in from Chicago, the supposed "turf wars" between the Vicy Lews (http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) and the Latin Kings were all backed by mob money from one side or the other.

I grew up in bars co-owned by the mob and the police and spent a lot of time getting beat by the big four and the gang squads, so the true face of authority is no shock to me.

The shock is in that they are showing their face to people who they have tried for so long to make belive that the police are there to "protect and serve" and that the government is looking out for the people.

As for the Sopranos... I dont get pay stations. I prefer to download my movies http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Monsterland Is (NOT)Open Again!!! (http://68.43.66.69:66/monsterland.htm) (dont say you werent warned...)

"Trying is the first step towards failure."
http://www.bodo.com/simpsons/zhomerb.gif "Well, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is... never try."

archive_Ulter
05-10-2004, 07:20 PM
This weeks gang update...
VL's are mostly Gangster Disciples now on the west side but the south side still has some. LK's are everywhere and probably always will be.

It's so strange to hear someone from Detroit use those names. But I guess it probably shouldn't be. You're close enough.

Now I've really thrown this off track. http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein

Monster
05-11-2004, 05:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:


Now I've really thrown this off track. http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and no... I think its all a part of a bigger picture.
After making so many changes in my life, and ending up living on the "money" side of town, Ive been in the rare position to see it all from both sides.
In my opinion, there is very little done to effectivly control what goes on (in the city). In the end I have to question if there is even a desire (from the upper eschelon) to end these things, or if it is just part of a "greater plan" for the inner cities.
Granted, an extremely corrupt police force doesnt help, nor does a long line or corrupt mayors, but still... it seems at times like its all part of someones bigger plan.

As for the gangs... they came here from Chicago after WhiteBoy Rick was finally busted. I guess to fill the void he left??? King James himself (<-- not the bible guy, for those who dont know http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)came through the southwest side of Detroit looking things over and sending people out to "recruit".
Ahhh, memories...

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Monsterland Is (NOT)Open Again!!! (http://68.43.66.69:66/monsterland.htm) (dont say you werent warned...)

"Trying is the first step towards failure."
http://www.bodo.com/simpsons/zhomerb.gif "Well, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is... never try."

archive_Ulter
05-11-2004, 04:52 PM
It's funny, when I got to the money side I still went back to the buildin's. I had to have someone yell down to the fellas in front so no one would steal my car, but I would still go back on Friday nights for dominos and cards.
Society has forgotten those people. They built high-rise buildin's that were going to solve the housing problem for minorities but forgot to do something about education and work for them. So now they just provide a vantage point for gangsters in Chicago.
Look at South Central LA. Those people don't live in the same country we do. Sure they are within our borders but that's all we have in common with them. Children that have to crawl through their houses at night so they aren't shot through a window. Infant mortality rates equal to Peru. They stand nearly no chance of getting out and there's no end in sight.
THIS used to be what people talked about. THIS used to be the problem. Now it's a gang called Al-Queida in a country on the other side of the world that has everyone on edge.
Most people are apalled that Al-Queida would kill like they do, and yes, with good reason. But these same people should spend a couple weeks in the buildin's. Those "gang people" who are just a few minutes away have NO regard for human life just like Al-Queida. They will kill you for just about anything and think nothing of it. And hey guess what? They are and have been living within minutes of your home Mr Citizen. Al-Queida wouldn't last 10 minutes in those buildin's or South Central.
I have probably told this story but...
I was sitting on a porch with a friend and his mom. His brother (James) is a General on the North Side. Two guys are waiting for the club to open on the corner and they are parked in front of the house with a loud sound system. My friend’s mom tells them to turn their radio down because we can't even hear each other talking on the porch. They ignore her. She yells in the house for the James to do something about these guys making noise. He yells out the door for them to turn it down. They give him the finger. Seconds later he come out of the house, he walks up to the door of their car and shoots them both and turns the car off. He walks back in the house and goes back to his dinner and TV show.
Now I am thinking... why isn't he headed to Mexico? Well because he's not thinking he did anything wrong. It’s perfectly normal to him.
I left and later learned he was arrested and would be back home in 8 years.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein

Monster
05-11-2004, 05:42 PM
I have to force myself to stay away, the lure of quick money is too strong for me... even if I dont need it. Florida was good for me. It let me break ties and move on... unfortunatly Ive had a hard time adjusting to not having "baller" money to spend. Ive blown a lot of money I shouldnt have trying to learn that lesson.


But anyway, I agree 100%. Its one of the biggest crimes in this country that we ignore our own peoples suffering while giving aid to the world... but we both know that that is the way "they" want it...

-------------------------
Monsterland Is (NOT)Open Again!!! (http://68.43.66.69:66/monsterland.htm) (dont say you werent warned...)

"Trying is the first step towards failure."
http://www.bodo.com/simpsons/zhomerb.gif "Well, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is... never try."

~ JP ~
05-11-2004, 08:08 PM
You guys are right on with most of this stuff, I just finished writing an note on the different theories and systems of justice that have developed. The legal system is just one of many that people use to enforce the cultures mores.

I grew up in the south so I really dont have first hand experience with the types of gangs you do. But I do know all about the good ol' boy network, and of course there is the klan too. I have been living in NY for the past few years, and it always strikes me as odd that people here dont even think the klan exists anymore - this is part of a concerted effort of the media. The klan does still exist, it actually still holds marches and rallys in varous southen cities, but the media as a group agreed not to cover them, to avoid "promoting" the cause. Thus, in other areas of the country, people think it doesnt exist. If the problem doesnt exist, then there is no need to try and fix it, so nothing gets done.

You mentioned how it is really hard for people to get out of south central, well, that applies to many cities in the rural south too, there is not much hope for them to leave either.

I guess I really dont have some overriding point here, but it is really sad that there are so many problems, issues and needs to address right here domestically and none of the current crop of hopefuls are addressing any of them.

As an aside, I was going to post a new thread about the media bias, but since I am typing here... has anyone ever seen aljazeera's web site? They have an english version out there. Today I say the news about the American who was beheaded and I went looking to get more info, I found the aljazeera english website and it was pretty much the same pictures and story as CNN, MSNBC, etc. But, if you go to the arabic site, the story changes considerably, instead of the picture of the American kneeling in front of the hooded assailants, they had pictures of the attackers holding his severed head and a video, asking locals what they thought about it. They present the cleaned up english page, to convey the image of a legit media outlet, but in reality they present a different story to the target audience.

macdaddy
05-13-2004, 07:41 AM
You know I think the issue with the media and not reporting the problems which exist in our inner cities is because no one cares. Think about Jon Benet Ramsey, if she had been a poor black girl in the hood, it might have gotten a mention on the local news but that's it, she's a rich blonde little girl and still gets coverage 9 years after her death.

archive_Ulter
05-13-2004, 08:24 AM
Yes you're right.
1100 people a year are murdered in Chicago. When I lived there I don't think I heard about more than 4-5 a year.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein