does running burn muscle? need scientific explanation.

[saiyanjin]

thanks.

[rsync]

From what I've read on the internets, it does not "burn" muscles. What generally happens is if you don't have enough calorie reserves on tap, your body turns to the quickest form of energy it has, muscles.

[T-Cake]

What rsync says is correct. To elaborate, consider that the body functions using two muscle fiber types: type 1 and type 2 (and type 2 has both a and b fibers). Type 1 is associated with endurance training and type 2 utilizes power raher than endurance.

Bottom line is running will utilize more of the Type 1 fibers than 2, so its not that the body is actively destroying the type 2 "power" fibers associated with bodybuilding and strength. Rather. running will enhance type 1 fiber's abilities to perform for extended periods of time.

But yes, that being said, if there isn't fuel (food or fat or glycogen stores) for the body to run with (no pun intended), some type 2 fibers may atrophy.

[BiggT]

What rsync says is correct. To elaborate, consider that the body functions using two muscle fiber types: type 1 and type 2 (and type 2 has both a and b fibers). Type 1 is associated with endurance training and type 2 utilizes power raher than endurance.

Bottom line is running will utilize more of the Type 1 fibers than 2, so its not that the body is actively destroying the type 2 "power" fibers associated with bodybuilding and strength. Rather. running will enhance type 1 fiber's abilities to perform for extended periods of time.

But yes, that being said, if there isn't fuel (food or fat or glycogen stores) for the body to run with (no pun intended), some type 2 fibers may atrophy.

Would an extreme example of this be a marathon runner?? I don't know much about it, but it always piqued my curiosity. I have a couple friends who are serious runners who train for matahons, and while they look trim and everybody would say they're thin guys, when they get bodyfat testing, it always comes back ridiculously high.

[Pan]

Would an extreme example of this be a marathon runner?? I don't know much about it, but it always piqued my curiosity. I have a couple friends who are serious runners who train for matahons, and while they look trim and everybody would say they're thin guys, when they get bodyfat testing, it always comes back ridiculously high.

I'd assume this is probably because the body can assimilate a protein faster than triglycerides - which takes more energy to process (albeit you get more energy from it). So their bodies have adapted to their constant running and munches into their muscle because it is a more readily available enegy source.

[T-Cake]

Would an extreme example of this be a marathon runner?? I don't know much about it, but it always piqued my curiosity. I have a couple friends who are serious runners who train for matahons, and while they look trim and everybody would say they're thin guys, when they get bodyfat testing, it always comes back ridiculously high.
Let's consider 2 types of endurance athletes:
1. Your marathoner friend(s)
2. Lance Armstrong

Okay, now I know it's a very wide spectrum there, but if a marathon runner is getting that "skinny fat" look and/or body fat reading, chances are they are missing some part of the training equation due to their extreme focus on running/conditioning. For most marathoners, that is what they do: run. That's it. No weight-training (or at least not for growth/strength gains), maybe not even a proper diet in place. These cases would be those you just referred to.

On the flip side, professional endurance athletes (Olympian triathletes or cyclists or swimmers even) tend to have a more well-rounded approach. The focus on diet is there (because these folks usually get a clue somewhere that nutrition is a huge part of success or lack thereof) and usually these people have incorporated weight-training into their plan as well. However, these folks wouldn't get the skinny-fat appearance because with the weight-training, hopefully they're being taught to strengthen their Type I endurance fibers using higher reps and "lighter" weights. Experienced coaches will train the athlete specifically for the sport -- but there is no coach out there who would keep a marathoner out of the weight room altogether (not a good one at least).

The addition of the weight training as well as proper nutrition would be the end-reason as to why some endurance athletes are ripped and slim... and others are "skinny fat".

[cipherkingtoo]

What rsync says is correct. To elaborate, consider that the body functions using two muscle fiber types: type 1 and type 2 (and type 2 has both a and b fibers). Type 1 is associated with endurance training and type 2 utilizes power raher than endurance.

Bottom line is running will utilize more of the Type 1 fibers than 2, so its not that the body is actively destroying the type 2 "power" fibers associated with bodybuilding and strength. Rather. running will enhance type 1 fiber's abilities to perform for extended periods of time.

But yes, that being said, if there isn't fuel (food or fat or glycogen stores) for the body to run with (no pun intended), some type 2 fibers may atrophy.

i believe this to be true but if it is then why do people say that you should run first thing in the morning on an empty stomach? without something in your stomach wouldnt your body start burning its muscle.

[Ulter]

Marathoners weight train.

[Spectre]

I carb preload before extended arobic activity such as sprint, fast hikes and such. Hate running.

[IliekFude]

Any physical activity has the potential to burn muscle if no other fuel is available.

[T-Cake]

i believe this to be true but if it is then why do people say that you should run first thing in the morning on an empty stomach? without something in your stomach wouldnt your body start burning its muscle.

Any physical activity has the potential to burn muscle if no other fuel is available.
To quote an article I read today: "Doing too much cardiovascular activity will not burn muscle. Doing too much cardiovascular activity while undereating will burn muscle."

So cipher -- if you're well-nourished every day (regardless of eating time), your body will have energy stores to pull from when you train on empty stomach. Some people believe that doing cardio on empty forces the body to burn fat stores first (rather than burn the breakfast you just ate). However, the more recent studies/articles I've read continue to say this theory is less favored and that a small meal prior to morning training can actually enhance fat loss.

I personally have done both: a.m. empty-stomach cardio and later on with a meal. I burned fat both ways. I did not find that empty-stomach cardio led to faster weight/fat loss. All about the same. I did notice that I feel more energized during my cardio session, though, with the food in my belly than I did w/o the meal.

'Fude, what you said is exactly what I read as well, keywords being "if no other fuel is available". If you're well-nourished (not undereating), your muscle will be minimally sacrificed (if at all).

[GTLifter]

Another thing to remember is that the human body strives for efficiency and you don't need 30+" quads to run a marathon so your body will drop the extra muscle if it becomes a hindrance.

[Mols]

I have a question: I am really small, still wanting to gain weight, and hardly ever do cardio. I weight train 4x/week, but this week ive been running 3-4x/week to practice for our PT test thats on 24Aug. Ive only been doing 1.5 miles each session, about 13-16 minutes with warmup. I do not want to lost even a pound, and lately since running i feel like ive lost weight for real.....I know when I lose ANY weight, I feel lighter, weaker, and it shows fairly quickly on me. Should I up my carbs/fat around/before running? I know its not much cardio AT ALL but for me, it shows.

[KKAZ]

Yea, Mols, if you dont want to lose any weight, and you are currently expending more energy/calories, then i'd say up the cals. And as hard as youve been training, i'd up em with complex carbs, to fuel your running.
The cardio [not running for BB's] on an empty stomach thing always gave me question. It made senes in one perspective, but we now know the liver stores tons of fuel. Enough for BB cardio purposes, that it would prevent going into fatstores for fuel.
I always liked the idea that the fire would burn more intensly as more fuel was put on it; Thus raising the metabolism. Does that make sense?

[Mols]

Yea, Mols, if you dont want to lose any weight, and you are currently expending more energy/calories, then i'd say up the cals. And as hard as youve been training, i'd up em with complex carbs, to fuel your running.
The cardio [not running for BB's] on an empty stomach thing always gave me question. It made senes in one perspective, but we now know the liver stores tons of fuel. Enough for BB cardio purposes, that it would prevent going into fatstores for fuel.
I always liked the idea that the fire would burn more intensly as more fuel was put on it; Thus raising the metabolism. Does that make sense?

hmm yes I think so. I never run on an empty stomach, its usually after work, after about 2-3 meals in me. Would you recomment I dont do cardio on days I lift? A few days ive lifted around 9am and then cardio around 4pm. I dunno I just do not want to lost another lb. :ugotmail:

[KKAZ]

I understand you not wanting to lose any hard earned muscle, but considering your PT test is 10 days away, the extra conditioning may have a rebound effect once you stop,allowing you to increase your recouperative abilities.I'd try to aim for non weight training days but its not set in stone.Ya know, 3 more practice runs with 2 or 3 days rest before the test.I think you got it in the bag, Sis.
lol-Bro's AND Sistas!

[Mols]

WEllll thank you sir!! :D

[rsync]

I tried for a few months to do cardio after lifting. I simply can not do cardio and lift in the same day and be able to function. The entire time my lifts stagnated and i felt like crap doing them. The week after I stopped I threw more weight on the bar no problem. Now I do 30-40 minutes on off days.

[Evidence]

Let's consider 2 types of endurance athletes:
1. Your marathoner friend(s)
2. Lance Armstrong

Okay, now I know it's a very wide spectrum there, but if a marathon runner is getting that "skinny fat" look and/or body fat reading, chances are they are missing some part of the training equation due to their extreme focus on running/conditioning. For most marathoners, that is what they do: run. That's it. No weight-training (or at least not for growth/strength gains), maybe not even a proper diet in place. These cases would be those you just referred to.

On the flip side, professional endurance athletes (Olympian triathletes or cyclists or swimmers even) tend to have a more well-rounded approach. The focus on diet is there (because these folks usually get a clue somewhere that nutrition is a huge part of success or lack thereof) and usually these people have incorporated weight-training into their plan as well. However, these folks wouldn't get the skinny-fat appearance because with the weight-training, hopefully they're being taught to strengthen their Type I endurance fibers using higher reps and "lighter" weights. Experienced coaches will train the athlete specifically for the sport -- but there is no coach out there who would keep a marathoner out of the weight room altogether (not a good one at least).

The addition of the weight training as well as proper nutrition would be the end-reason as to why some endurance athletes are ripped and slim... and others are "skinny fat".


Sometimes there is no other explanation than genetics. Everything you mentioned above can actually be the complete opposite of the greatest athletes in our country. Michael Phelps never touched a weight untill last year and eats horribly. His work capacity is insane and his genetics are superior. I think we get way too technical and scientific in a lot of this. I grew up as a young kid idolizing guys like Lavar Arrington and Brandon Short who played their high school ball in my area and watching them look like 30 year old men just killing people. Then finding out when they go to psu that they never weight trained and could care less about in the weightroom. Brandon Short trained at DeFrancos in New Jersey late in his career, but I'm just saying that in a lot of cases, we have all the scientific mumbo jumbo and possible explanations, but i'll take the genetic freaks as we have no idea how it is they do what they do, anyday of the week.

[silver_shadow]

am i understanding this correct but what i see here is that some are suggesting that a carb up is good enough to prevent a marathon runner to prevent muscle loss during a 26 mile run.

i don't think that is the case. i would imagine that a marathon would require a decent recovery period. or for that matter any similar distance endurance event. well at least that's what i'm guessing.

[GTLifter]

am i understanding this correct but what i see here is that some are suggesting that a carb up is good enough to prevent a marathon runner to prevent muscle loss during a 26 mile run.

i don't think that is the case. i would imagine that a marathon would require a decent recovery period. or for that matter any similar distance endurance event. well at least that's what i'm guessing.

I trained for a half marathon a couple years back and we would eat a granola bar or a GU packet every 3-4 miles along with some water. Once we started doing that it bad a big difference.

[silver_shadow]

I trained for a half marathon a couple years back and we would eat a granola bar or a GU packet every 3-4 miles along with some water. Once we started doing that it bad a big difference.

so you are saying you managed to prevent weight loss or muscle loss?

[GTLifter]

so you are saying you managed to prevent weight loss or muscle loss?
uhh...I was about 135lbs and cared little about muscle at the time...

it decreased recovery time after the run and made it easier to complete the run...