BARRY BONDS: Anybody the least bit

[archive_MR. BMJ]

...interested to see what kind of condition he is in next season? These interviews on television show a sunken faced (and slightly aged looking) Barry Bonds compared to a year ago. If he is clean for the next season, it will be interesting to see what he will do? Anybody kind of anxious?

I really could give two slices of bread whether or not these guys juice, and i'm not trying to make this a post on whether or not it should be legal in MLB.

I know it has been stated on ESPN/FOX that Giambi is looking CONSIDERABLY smaller. He looked a lot smaller last year anyway.

I'm not the biggest baseball watcher (except for rivalry games and play-off time games), but I might make it a point to see what these guys look like physically.

btw...i'm not so much wanting to watch for hopes that these guys fail. I just see Bonds possibly getting frustrated at not being the same player as he is when on, and just walking away from the game. Therefore, not challenging for the HR record. Next year might have a lot riding on it.

BMJ

[archive_Mickey]

I'm a huge baseball fan and I'm not sold on the idea that Bonds was definately juicing. The guy was already getting bigger every year its not like he just blew up or something and he has great genetics. He is 6'2 228 and considered huge....what about the guys who play football (and we know get tested) who get bigger and arent considered huge? I am a Philly fan and I know that Donovan McNabb is 6'2 245lbs and he was smaller in college. Is anyone accusing him of juicing? Now I'm not saying that Bonds never juiced, its just that he was always really good and he changed a lot of stuff with his stance to make him a better hitter. He could never hit the inside pitch and now he can so thats why I think he hits more homers and so does he.

I will tell you that I know that Giambi was juicing. I saw him in person last year fairly close to me and he was talking to Jim Thome and he made Thome look small. Giambi's back was just huge. He always looks like he is holding water and he was never that good until he got big. Now he looks A LOT smaller but not just smaller his face doesnt have that water look that he had before. Also Brett Boone was the most obvious juicer in baseball I have ever seen and he never gets mentioned. He literally gained 30lbs in the offseason 2 years ago and went from hitting like 20 homers to 37 and 141 RBI's and had more water in his face and arms than most bodybuilders.

In my opinion the guys that use are the guys who are either mediocre and try to get better or old guys trying to hold on. Some guys who you would never think would do it I think are...some old guys like: Benito Santiago (5% BF at his age? come on) and Juilio Franco (hes like 45 and ripped).

Some guys who were mediocre then juiced to become stars: Jason Giambi, Brett Boone, Sammy Sosa (yes he was mediocre then juiced and gained a LOT of weight, got pissed when offered a steroid test, and also got caught cheating with a corked bat..ever see him when he came up with the White Sox?).

I dont think we can say anthing for sure until then finally release names but those are just some thoughts that I have.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[VOX - DEI]

Is he not eligible for HRT (Humatropin, Upjohn Cyp) legally? And if he has shoulder pain maybe some deca as well instead of cort. shots.

Or did they ban it completely even if it's a medical necessity?

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[This message was edited by VOX - DEI on 02-28-2004 at 01:15 PM.]

[archive_Ulter]

I think Bonds was juicing but only during the offseason which is exactly what Sosa does. He just goes home the Dominican Rep for a nice 4 month cycle and that's all he needs.
I don't think you'll see Bonds numbers drop off like you would Giambi's or Sosa's. Bonds was one of baseballs greatest hitters BEFORE he juiced. The juice just had him swinging for the fence instead of spraying the ball to the open holes. So if he quits juicing he might not hit the ball as far but he'll still leave the yard because he has the talent it takes to hit a fastball square. I guy as small as Kenny Lofton can leave the yard if he can catch up with a fastball and hit it square.
Sosa however is getting too old to get around on a ML fastball with consistancy. But I would guess he sat down in the DR and loaded up on some mammoth 4 month cycle that has him bigger than ever this year.
Giambi's phucked. If he's going to SO 140 times like he did last year and only hit 20 HR's and knock in 80, who needs him?

VD they can't test a player who is injured.

[archive_pornosonic]

The media can speculate who is or wasn't juicing all they want but the real story will be at the end of the season when the big guys like Giambi, Sosa, Sheffield, and Bonds either drop in their numbers or stay the same. If they do drop significantly and I do mean significantly in the eyes of the media(40 homers)--then the media can say we told you so, but the question remains like Ulter said in the case of Sosa can you chalk it off to old age or a bad year? And would the media anyway? I mean if it was a bad year would they say it was lack of steroids anyway for the sake of the story? Probably

[Malleus]

I'm almost positive Bonds has been juicing. When Bonds was with the Pirates he was a skinny guy, albeit perhaps the best hitter in the league. I saw a website awhile ago before all this media attention and it showed a drastic weight gain in the offseason after one particular season... If I'm not mistaken Bonds was in the 180's when he was leading the league with 30-some homers back in the early nineties. Bonds has such power now that he doesn't need to hit the ball squarely to go deep, he hits homers off the end of his bat all the time. Whatever the case, 40 pounds seems like an awful lot of weight for a guy to gain purely off of "vitamin supplementation" alone. Mickey, what is your evidence that Bonds has "great genetics"? Because he can hit a baseball doesn't entail that he can gain 40 pounds over a few years on simple weight training.

[archive_Mickey]

Obviously I dont have his DNA laying around so I guess I cant say for sure that he has great genetics. I do know that he is one of the greatest players ever and you dont do that being an average athlete.

See I truely believe that people who use steroids seem to be a lot more skeptical of everyone else using. When in actuality I dont think a lot of people juice at all. All I'm saying is that I know some huge strong guys who have never touched the stuff and some little skinny guys who have done 5 "cycles". Some people have superior genetics that they can grow faster and bigger without anything.

One of my best friends is all natural and at 5'10 he is 235 and 8% body fat all year long. They guy is jacked and he doesnt touch the stuff.

Some people got it and some dont. Im just saying dont be so quick to say Bonds did it. I wouldnt be suprised if he did or didnt.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[archive_Ulter]

Malleus
I don't have Barry's DNA either but... suppose without steroids you average over 30 HR's and over 40 stolen bases a year for ten years in the majors, I would say you're a gifted MLB player. Now add to that that in those ten years you're selected to the All-Star game 3 times and win 3 Gold Gloves then you're a REALLY gifted MLB player and it's safe to say you probably have great genetics. Right?
So if you have those great genetics and you were to have a son and that son grows up to be Barry Bonds it's a pretty safe bet that he has great genetics as well.

[Malleus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
Malleus
I don't have Barry's DNA either but... suppose without steroids you average over 30 HR's and over 40 stolen bases a year for ten years in the majors, I would say you're a gifted MLB player. Now add to that that in those ten years you're selected to the All-Star game 3 times and win 3 Gold Gloves then you're a REALLY gifted MLB player and it's safe to say you probably have great genetics. Right?
So if you have those great genetics and you were to have a son and that son grows up to be Barry Bonds it's a pretty safe bet that he has great genetics as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but what KIND of genetics are you talking about? By those standards Stephen Hawking has "great genetics" since he is a mental giant; it doesn't follow that he has "great genetics" as we use the term in BB, and I find it highly suspect to ascribe THOSE kinds of great genetics to someone who has been in a wheelchair for his whole life.
Having quick hands and fantastic hand-eye coordination does not entail great BB genetics either, although I'd without a doubt take his baseball genetics. There is no doubt in my mind that Bonds is a hall-of-fame caliber player with or without the juice. But the fact remains, he wouldn't have hit over 70 HRs without a little chemical help, nor would he have added so much mass.

[archive_Mickey]

Well now reports today that Bonds, Giambi and Sheffield took steroids.

I dont believe in the validity of that report yet just because I really dont believe Sheffield has ever taken anything. The guy has always been the same size and has had consistent performances year after year.

One thing that does make me think that the report is true is that they named Benito Santiago as one of the users!!!! I told everyone so! I have been saying his name forever. Its not all the huge guys, its a lot of old guys trying to hold on and he is one of them. Also guys like Marvin Bernard and Randy Velarde they mentioned.....guys who are average who are trying to keep a job and have an edge.

Ulter, good job in noticing that Bobby Bonds was a hell of a player in his day http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[archive_Ulter]

No he probably would never have hit 70 and not just cause of the juice but because he never really swung for fences until he got a little older, slower, and bigger.
I know he hit 70 with AS but that doesn't mean I don't stop whatever I am doing if he's at the plate to watch him. I don't care if they use AS, weight train, use physical therapy, batting glove, pine tar, wrist wraps, or any other aid. As long the ball and the bat are not tampered with it's not cheating to me.

[archive_Bjaarki]

I'm surprised by all the surprise that MLB players - or any other high-level competitive athlete - use performance-enhancing drugs. Is that cynical? I don't think so. Remember that these agents were neither scheduled nor banned until the past couple of decades. Now, these guys traipse all over parts of the world where anabolics are freely available, they have more money than they can burn, they all share a fierce competitive ethic, most of them would gladly be dead in 5 years if they could win the Superbowl or the World Series or an Olympic gold medal right now (that's no joke, that's legitimate survey data, replicated every four years at the Olympics) ... so, really ... what's the surprise? Hell, I'd be prepared to assume that most any high-level competitor uses at least some kind of performance-enhancing drug (often steroids, as well as licit and illicit ergogenics) until someone convinces me otherwise. Wouldn't you? I mean, if someone as lame as I can figure how to get from Point A to Point B more efficiently via the use of anabolics, who couldn't?

The thing that always amuses me in this uproar about steroids in sports is the unspoken fact that steroid use is absolutely rampant in law enforcement, security, corrections, and similar personnel. They make it this big criminal-sounding underground, make it a big law issue, when there are probably more gearhead cops per square mile in this country than there are gearhead jocks of whatever stripe. That's a hilarious thought to keep in mind when Ashcroft's mug comes on the screen. What a laugh!

Bjaarki

... Then, do what you have to do.

[archive_Ulter]

Someone on Elite asked if they test cops for steroids. I replied, yes, it's a written test to make sure they're cycling correctly.
Of course it was a joke but you're right on as usual B. If I am coming out of the Chicago Stadium at 11PM and I have to walk to a remote parking lot with my blonde date, I pray to God that every cop on every corner is doing a gram a week. And so would anyone else who knows what that means.

[Dragon]

Bjaarki, I think you got it right. I never thought pro athletes are clean. My step-father played highschool football and was good friends with Tom Jackson, the announcer and ex- devner player. I met him and was talking about baseball and he said he knows for sure that at least 80% of all MLB players use our have used AAS or other performance enhancing drug. He also said Most of the NFL and alot of NBA use as well too.

No doubt in my mind was bonds juicing. If at the very least only during off season, he was juicing. Even if you only cycled in the off season, used the right AAS, ,over the years those cycles would help alot in what ever sport you play.

I do;t really care if a player does AAS. I thinkk all sports should just give up drug testing and let all pro athletes juice. Hell, I'd even like to see Tiger Woods juicen!

http://www.anabolicfitness.net/images/dragon059.jpg