Parity in the NFL: Hoeycow's Take

[hoeycow]

What happened to all the good teams? Since the run of the Denver Broncos ended the day Elway retired the NFL has yet to see a great team. Year after year another team rises from the ashes to turn our football season upside down. You used to be able to watch the Dallas Cowboys and clearly see why they were the best team in the league. You would watch Denver dominate opponent after opponent and name their starting line up. San Fran, Green Bay and Buffalo, dominating teams with star studded lineups. Where have all the stars gone?

Week after week I try and answer therealj's picks. Week after week I find myself looking at teams and their records and saying to myself"they're 7-2 yet I can't see one thing they do special...how has this team won that many games?" Parity is trumpeted as the greatest thing to happen to football, it would be if it were a league full of good teams that beat up on one another like a tough college conference. Instead I see a league full of average teams with average records playing average football. As we sit right now 17 teams are currently at .500 or worse, is that good football?

Not that the health of the league is a problem in the least but I wonder how many years fans will come out to support a bunch of teams at 9-7 or 8-8. True fans will always be there but more fans will flock to see great teams. The troubling thing for me is the fact that there is no continuity in the league. Year after year we see a turnover of what seems like all the playoff teams. It's not like we're seeing teams build and become better. We see teams shoot up and down the ladder every single season. Pats and Rams play in the Super Bowl, both miss the playoffs completely the next year, same this year.

While I can see the excitement of not having one dominating team does it not almost cheapen the winning of a Super Bowl when it's champion is not even good enough to defend it's own title or even put up a fight? Where are the stars who are supposed to be leading these teams? I know that there are extremely few John Elways and Ray Lewis' out there but the people that the league are pushing as stars are falling short.

Football is one sport where one man can not drag you to a championship (otherwise Brett Favre would have a few more rings). It seems like every team has 1 or 2 good players maybe even a great one but the supporting cast just is not there. Even worse there is a number of greatly tallented players who are just out for themselves (see Tampa Bay and San Fran). Maybe with free agency we will never see a great team again, maybe I am just too cynical to see what is in front of me. I love football and I love the NFL for better or for worse I just hope that we will start getting to the better.

[therealj]

I was 45 minutes into my reply when my internet decided to crash, to say I'm mad would be a gross understatement. I'm going to slowly wander off to bed before I break this computer and buy and Apple of ebay

230lbs or Bust

[hoeycow]

funny, that's basiacally what happened as i was writing this in the first place...maybe the NFL is watching us? http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[archive_Mickey]

I dont think that the parity is the complete fault of the league. I think that some teams manage the cap poorly and make poor draft decions and coaching decisions.

Lets take my favorite team for example, the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles have been an elite team for 4 years now because they make good cap decisions. They are one of only a few teams in the league who refuses to pay their over-30 year old players tons of money. The Eagles sign early and long extensions then let the guy go when he is aging and wants lots of dough. They also draft well a year or so ahead to replace those players. Hence they win their division yet again, are way under the cap, and the future looks bright yet again because of their last couple of drafts.

Some teams just get it and some dont. The Raiders are a perfect example of how not to manage the cap. A roster full of old and overpaid players. Which leads the team into sudden decline. If you play it smart there is no reason for a team to get bad. You need to play ahead, invest wisely, and draft well.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[hoeycow]

While the Raiders are a story in themselves I don't see the Eagles as anything special, if they are an elite team then I am truly missing something. Had the Eagles spent some money they would most likely have won a Super Bowl, they sacricife their chances on prospects and hope that they may live up to what their former stars were. The Raiders on the other hand kept bringing in vets to enhance the ocre of a strong team, for 3 years the threatened to win it all and ended up falling badly because of it. Of course they do have a handfull of valuable draft picks from the Gruden deal that will see them rise up sooner than later.

[archive_pornosonic]

I like to call it parody, not parity because the NFL was hoping to make the league more competitive but instead made a mockery of it by making it less competitive. I agree with what hoeycow says,

(Week after week I try and answer therealj's picks. Week after week I find myself looking at teams and their records and saying to myself"they're 7-2 yet I can't see one thing they do special...how has this team won that many games?" Parity is trumpeted as the greatest thing to happen to football, it would be if it were a league full of good teams that beat up on one another like a tough college conference. Instead I see a league full of average teams with average records playing average football. As we sit right now 17 teams are currently at .500 or worse, is that good football?)

I get tired of the up and down seasons, and the lack of dominant teams to hate year in and year out. This is how old rivalries die and new ones begin but only for maybe a season.

Also like hoeycow said, where are have all the stars gone, and star studded lineups? Even the pro bowl will have so many new players, and I don't think it is b/c the players themselves are better, it is just b/c last seasons players are on a losing team and have a more difficult time showing themselves.

(Maybe with free agency we will never see a great team again, maybe I am just too cynical to see what is in front of me. I love football and I love the NFL for better or for worse I just hope that we will start getting to the better.")

hopefully, hoeycow, hopefully

[archive_Mickey]

"The Raiders on the other hand kept bringing in vets to enhance the ocre of a strong team, for 3 years the threatened to win it all and ended up falling badly because of it."

I cant disagree with you more. The Eagles have gone to the second round of the playoffs 2 years ago and then to two straight NFC Title games, losing closely to the Rams in one (which won the bowl a year earlier), and losing closely last year to the eventual bowl champion. Are you really gonna say that they werent a threat to win it all?
You might classify an elite team as someone who wins consecutive championships which the Eagles havent. They have just been the 1st or 2nd best team in the NFC for the past few years, which I think is pretty good considering no one else seems to be able to do the same.
In my eyes going that deep 3 years in a row, winning their division, having the best record in the entire NFC last year, and haveing the best record this year in the NFC with one of the hardest schedules in the NFL makes it a pretty damn good football team. They dont do anything great but who cares. Neither did the Pats a few years ago. I think they are most certainly a threat to win the super bowl.

And just out of curiosity, who would they have kept and "spent money on" that would have taken they to the bowl the past couple of years? They didnt make it because of bad play calling and if you ask Andy Reid, I am sure he will agree. He has a habit of playing a little tentative in big games.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[archive_Mickey]

And I also disagree with you guys when you say that a team has to "do something special" to win a lot of games. Playing hard, playing smart, and excecuting your game plan better than the other team will get you more wins than not. You dont have to be a defensive specialist or offensive juggernaut to win a lot of games.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[archive_pornosonic]

You dont have to be a defensive specialist or offensive juggernaut to win a lot of games but what if your big playmaker gets hurt on a team without any other stars-- Playing hard, playing smart, and execution will only get you so far without the talent. Like hoeycow said, "As we sit right now 17 teams are currently at .500 or worse, is that good football?" No especially when the rest of the teams really aren't as good as their records indicate. There are very few teams that I would place in the elite this year even though there are a lot of similar records.

[hoeycow]

They're a solid team and nothing more and they won't be anything more than that until they spend a bit to get a reciever and a real running back. They had a dominating defence that while is still good could have taken them to the next level had they kept some players. Sometimes you need to keep that team together and try and get that one more player that will get you over the top. I don't agree with buying teams but you need to do something to get that edge over your opponents. Please tell me who they have signed or kept that has kept them on top. The Eagles are the Pittsburgh Steelers of this era, losing key players to free agency and trying to replace them with good but not great players from their system. While this is noble it is not how you win. Also you actually nailed my point exactly when you said that a team doesn't have to be special to win a lot of games. This is exactly the problem, the top teams are so amazingly average. They do nothing great, they play hard, and are well coached, which again is very admirable but doesn't make for a great league. Look at last years champions, the Bucs. They have had that great core of a defence that they kept together, at a good cost while adding player to both their D and offence while trying to get that push. Rice, Key, McCardell, Jurevicius, Johnson, Gruden etc., this is what teams that want to be great do. They may have folded but you know that the team has way too much tallent to not come back next year. I'm not on a diss Philly kick I am talking about the fact that there are no great teams around anymore and in fact lots of bad ones.

p.s. If the season ended right now the combined records of the Eagles opponents would 83-86 or a .491 win percentage.

[This message was edited by hoeycow on 12-09-2003 at 09:18 PM.]

[archive_Mickey]

I know what you mean, I just love a good discussion http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

However, I agree that they do need a receiver but they dont need a back. The Pats, Bucs won without a great back and the Raiders got the the bowl without one too. Most great backs in the game today are on teams that stink, McCallister, Tomlinson, Lewis........all this teams are bad or just above average. Its a passing league now.

Next year when Duce Staley is gone you are going to see how good Buckhalter and Westbrook are. Buckhalter ran for 115 this weekend on like 14 carries, he runs hard and has great moves. Westbrook is also a special player. I like Westbrook but I think he is always going to be banged up. I really think Buckhalter will be good though, the guy hits the hole so hard, has great moves and great balance. They wont be able to show how good they both are though in the West Coast system with pass happy Reid as coach. They are both very very good players though.

And the only player I think the Eagles every missed on D these days is Jerimiah Trotter, they need a good linebacker. I think its the weakness of their D. The players that they let go recently, Al Harris (gave up one big play a game and still does) and Hugh Douglas they arent going to miss. The media outside of Philly never reported what the Eagles knew about Douglas, he has really bad knees, a degenerative condition that is getting worse, he'll be done soon. And they got two ends in this years draft that have been hurt and unable to produce so far. Their D line has be killed by injuries this year, thus the weak run D, 4 good players went down.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[hoeycow]

You know Mickey, we may have stumbled on to something here. It seems that all you here is "West Coast Offence", which was made popular by the 49ers. Problem is that the San Fran team that made it so popular was one of the best of all time. Here we have teams with average tallent trying to make the plays that Montana and Rice did, it's rediculous. I love the Raiders but watching them dink and dunk down the field for 3 years was horrible. The best team that they had was the year that they lost to the Ravens, they had I believe the best running team in the league. They abandoned that to such an extent that they have no ballance now at all. Maybe we have an answer as to why the league is in such a state.

[archive_Mickey]

I will agree to that one http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Actually when you think about it. The teams that have won the Supebowl over the last 5-8 years havent been "West Coast" teams. They have been the Cowboys, Pats, Ravens, Broncos, Rams...and such.

Its the West Coast offense stupid http://www.anabolicfitness.net/smileys/idea.gif

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[therealj]

you guys are in for it when I get some time later tonight http://www.anabolicfitness.net/smileys/banana.gif

230lbs or Bust

[therealj]

you guys are really really in for it,lol http://www.anabolicfitness.net/smileys/banana.gif

230lbs or Bust

[hoeycow]

I see that we have awoken the almighty j man from his slumber...be afraid...be very afraid. http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[archive_pornosonic]

As the sun's light finally appeared to awaken the morning voice of British Columbia's official bird, the mighty Steller's Jay-- therealj sat perched at his old computer, oblivious to the sounds of dawn, and continued fervently typing his manifesto entitled- The NFL: How Parity Has Helped The League Post Elway. http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[therealj]

Ok boys here we go. First I must say I love the current NFL and would trade it for NFL of the 80's to mid 90's any day of the week. Can you guys honestly tell me you enjoyed watching the playoffs or the superbowls during those years? Can someone please tell me about a good superbowl before the Broncos'-Packers game of 98, the Bills and Giants 20-19 game in 91, and before that? The playoffs were merely a formality and the Super Bowl was watched more for the commercials than the game it's self. I do not miss that, I don't miss watching my Broncos' get trounced by 45 points nor did I enjoy watching the Bills get killed in 3 of 4. Which leads us to the current NFL. I'm going to touch upon some points that were brought up, I'll do so in point form so I don't run off topic

1) Average teams playing average football

Couldn't disagree any more, sorry dog http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Some of the most exciting games I have ever watched came this year. Manning's comeback on MNF over the Bucs, Parcells winning in OT over the Giants on MNF, the offensive show the broncos put on against the Chiefs on Sunday. Or how about the Ravens and Seahawks shootout, even the meaningless game last night between the Browns and Rams was thoroughly enjoying to watch.

A few reasons why there is such parity

Ok let's examine for a second what is needed to have a dynasty or a mini one http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . When you look at the last couple teams that could qualify they all had the same Key components

1) head coach - Walsh,Johnson and Shanahan will all end up in the hall of fame

2) QB - Montana,Elway,Young, Aikman will be 4 of the greatest busts in Canton

3) RB - Emmitt,Davis,Roger Craig. Again all except for Davis maybe will be in the Hall of fame

4) Quality receivers - Rice,Taylor,Irvin,Novacek,Sharpe,Rod Smith,McCaffery, those guys could catch a ball

5) A defense good enough to keep them in games, that's it. Sure a team like the 85 bears,2001 Ravens and 2003 Bucs will come along and sneak a superbowl win every once and awhile but the bottom line is the D needs to be merely average and as long as they can stop the run you can win a superbowl.

How many teams in the current NFL can boast the above? St Louis maybe?...maybe and if they win the superbowl this year should they not be considered great? Indy? they have all the right ingredients and the last time I checked Manning and James are young bucks, would any of you be that surprised to look back in 12 years and see Peyton Manning with a couple super bowl rings? will you cry mediocrity allowed him to win them or will you give him his due credit? Same with Tom Brady, if New England wins the superbowl this year how are they not a great team? Would winning two of the last 3 superbowls not constitute greatness?

Another key factor that gets overlooked is injuries, SF,Dallas and Denver were all able to avoid the injury bug. Had Warner not taken so much abuse for the last 2 years and Faulk not been slowed by injuries as well, I would bet good money that the Rams would have more than 1 superbowl ring right now.

Another topic touched upon was the lack of star players, I really don't see that being the case and in fact I don't think there has even been as much talent in the NFL. A huge reason for the level playing field is the depth that many teams have at skilled positions such as QB and running back. Teams can lose a player to injury only to have a guy come off the bench and keep them winning, never in recent memory has that been such common place. Tom Brady and Kurt Warner for a superbowl anyone?

Another huge reason for the parity is the abundance of quality coach's and co-ordinators. Rattle off all the teams in the NFL in your head right now and think of who the head coach is, at least half the teams out there have a top notch head coach. You simply cannot win football games without a good head coach, not many anyway.

I made the mistake of getting up and watching TV halfway thru this so my train of thought is gone right now, so I'll end with just a couple points of why the NFL is better right now. And by the way the west coast offence is an over used term and contrary to what Mickey said was run by the Denver Broncos and still is. Shanahan is the master of the west coast offence(hence the moniker "mastermind" ). There are really only a few schools of thought in the NFL in regards to offensive game plan

1) Run a variation of the west coast offence such as Denver,Green Bay, Philly,Oakland,Seattle,TB and formally SF along with a few other teams who have aspects of this style in their game plan

2) Try and pound the ball and hope time of possession and a lack of turnovers will win you the game. Dallas,Baltimore,SD,Miami,Carolina,and Pittsburgh used to fall in this category but have started to throw the ball all over the field

3) Throw the ball all over the field and hope for the best, Buffalo(finally realized they must run Henry) Cleveland,Cincy to a certain extent, the saints who throw downfield way too much for a team with Deuce in the backfield, Minny,Lions,Giants,Redskins, and the cardinals

4) then you have the "special" teams such as Indy and St Louis who have simply too much talent and can do too many things to place them in one category.

Anyway....

why the NFL is better now

1) Who's going to win the superbowl? exactly you don't know
2) Who's the best team in football? exactly you don't know and thus you have a reason to tune in each week
3) Who's the best coach in the NFL? exactly you've got about 12 to choose from don't you, 1/3 chance he's coaching your favorite team
4) Your team missed the playoffs. But I bet you watched up until week 17 because if they had won and so and so had lost to so and so they would have got in. Unless you miss the days of knowing the division winners in week 12
5) Chances are no matter who you cheer for you have at least one player on your team worth watching each week, sorry cardinals fans
6) Chris Bermans saying "And that's why they play the game" finally holds true week in and week out
7) Because drafting Mike Vick and being able to walk into Lambeau field in January during your second year and win is pretty fucking cool
8) Because football is not baseball or basketball. Leagues that can't survive unless the Bulls win 3 in a row or the Yankees are playing the Red Sox

230lbs or Bust

[therealj]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pornosonic:
As the sun's light finally appeared to awaken the morning voice of British Columbia's official bird, the mighty Steller's Jay-- therealj sat perched at his old computer, oblivious to the sounds of dawn, and continued fervently typing his manifesto entitled- The NFL: How Parity Has Helped The League Post Elway. http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif...I'm much better in person, putting this shit into written word gives me a migraine

230lbs or Bust

[hoeycow]

well J man here's my answer to your thoughts:

I agree, the competitive aspect of the league has never been better. The divisional races and playoff births go right down to the final game, who will forget the Dolphins going from 1st seed to out of the playoffs last year in a two week span? As far as that goes I agree, but what about watching the Cowboys and 49ers? I can still name most of their starting line ups, those were stars and those were battles. Maybe the current crop just has yet to make a name for themselves, let's hope. You know better than most that I love football and the NFL more than most, we can relate to being pissed off for two days because our team lost, while that may not be normal http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif it's the way I am. Now I will follow your lead here:

Average teams playing average football:
I'll give you the Colts game (it was just as fun to see Sapp and Key get their mouths shut as the performance put on by the Colts), but while the Cowboys vs. Giants may have been entertaining those are not great teams, that was just a fun game to watch. Again, I have no problem with the games, they are fun to watch, it's the teams I'm wondering about here. Of course I'm splitting hairs but this whole topic was just a ploy to get all of us thinking.

A few reasons why there is such parity:
This is fine, this is what I was getting at. As for the Rams, great teams don't miss the playoffs, same with the Pats. The Rams run was amazing, that offence absolutely destroyed people but what did they win? That's what separates people and teams from greatness. The Pats are different, this is an all around good team with a great coach but that run they had to win the Super Bowl shouldn't have even happend due to the fumble that wasn't. http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Yes Indy is good, the Pats are good, the Rams are good, Philly is good, Tennesse is good, Kc is good and the Broncos and a few other teams and I hope that they all stick together and beat on each other for years to come but that hasn't been the case yet, that's what I want to see. All of these teams have potential, let's do something.

As for stars sure there's lots of tallent, what I want to see is these tallented players stepping up in big games the way Portis did on Sunday, the way Lewis does every week and so on. It is great to see the job that players can do given the chance like the Willie Beaman show going on in Baltimore right now I just want to see them sustain it.

Lastly I never said that the league wasn't entertaining my idea behind my questions were basically why is the league the way it is? Is it a bunch of good teams and tallented players who are in essence cancelling themselves out? Or is it that all this entertainment and craziness is a product of well ballance average teams? You get my train of thought? This could very well be the calm before the storm when Indy, New England, Philly, Tennessee, Denver, Tampa, St. Louis etc. all rise up and form what will be an even better, deeper and bigger version of what we had back in the day. The foundation is there let's see what they can do.