Gaining leg size without going heavy

[~R~F~G~]

Can it be done? I am 41 and really starting to have knee problems but wont stop training legs, if i have to skip a workout legs is the last thing I skip.. I can pull alot from the floor but when I put the weight on my back it just sends the pain right to the knee.. It's a combination of arthritus and years of kick starting Harleys.

I am on HRT so the Nandralone helps some but nothing is taking it away. I can leg press heavy just squatting is killing me but I still have to add size to my legs. They are my bane..

[Sarge]

Sassy (69) may be the leading expert in this field.

You said weight on your back, so I have to ask if Front squatting hurts your knees just the same?

[~R~F~G~]

Sassy (69) may be the leading expert in this field.

You said weight on your back, so I have to ask if Front squatting hurts your knees just the same?
I have to admit I am guilty of not doing front squats.. So I cannot answer that.. Next leg day I will do them and see, wont be going heavy then because it will be new to me but I will add them in every week to see what comes of it.

Thanks, sometimes we tend to overlook the things that stare us in the face..

[Sarge]

Very cool, I hope it works out for you then.

Here's a quick briefing before you get into the rack: Barbell Front Squat (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBFrontSquat.html)

That is the 'mummy' or 'choke hold' ... you can also try the Olympic Front Squat but it requires a great amount of wrist flexibility:
GAYLE HATCH :: broadband video channel (http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm)

[~R~F~G~]

Thanks for the links, I'll try the Olympic but with the amount of times I have broken my hand and wrist I may go to the choke hold..

Thanks again Sarge.

[Blut Wump]

I've had lingering knee problems for the past couple of years that seem slowly to be sorting themselves out. My solution was to switch exclusively to doing box-squats. I used a reasonably wide stance and it took the stress away from my knees.

I even tried front box-squats but don't recommend them. I did some real front squats a couple of weeks ago and they were fine for me. I half-expected never to be able to get deep in the hole again.

[sassy69]

I can't add much to this -- I developed some whopper knee problems that invovled some tendonitis & bursitis in 2006 when I started going really heavy & doing a lot of weighted walking lunges. This was not a problem in 2005 but then I wasn't doing much in the way of serious heavy core stuff. An example, like RFG said - 6 plates on the leg press for 3 x 10, not an issue, altho you can hear the knees crunching a bit. Then squats,,, 185 has been the top that I've done w/o losing form, but still only goign to parallel.

So last week I decided it was time to go thru some remedial squat training. I've been doing sets of body wt squats (no bar) + weighted squats just to work on getting my flexibility to where I can go to roughly where the safety bar is on your standard squat rack. Last week I did this w/ box squats and somewhere in the middle of it I put weight on my right knee just right and it get really tweaky. That just scares me that I'm goign to just collapse. I've been trying to go "raw" w/ no wraps or anything because I'm not goign very heavy, but at the same time, they just dont' feel like solid squats.

Next week I'm starting up w/ one of the trainers for a few sessions just to have a spotter and someone who can help me work on getting ATF. I've got some nylon sleeves I want to try first, and then a set of wraps if needed. I need to get down there tho -- my quads are one of my disproportionately small muscle groups and ye olde ass just needs to get lifted. I gots some major competitions in the future and these will help immensely. But just to the fundamentals, it scares me to have bad knees. It takes so little to jar them.

[Blut Wump]

These days, I never squat without my knee sleeves.

[sassy69]

These days, I never squat without my knee sleeves.

I think on one level I'm working so hard to ensure I have a strong body as I get older and put myself under more stress, but at the same time I think I have this fear of having to use this stuff forever going forward. Its sorta like needing reading glasses.... I'm fighting it but I suspect I'll be giving in soon. :help:

But even given that, I'm really looking hard to find a way to get my squats correct & deep because it is good in so many ways.

[IliekFude]

jay cutler would say yes to yr question.

[Blut Wump]

I think on one level I'm working so hard to ensure I have a strong body as I get older and put myself under more stress, but at the same time I think I have this fear of having to use this stuff forever going forward. Its sorta like needing reading glasses.... I'm fighting it but I suspect I'll be giving in soon. :help:

But even given that, I'm really looking hard to find a way to get my squats correct & deep because it is good in so many ways.I don't think that I think of them as a "getting old" crutch. They don't really give much, if any, boost to the lift but they do a fine job of keeping the joint warm and helping it to feel supported.

It's a hassle to feel that I have to put on knee sleeves every time I squat but they do help. I'm sure I'll stop using them when I'm happy with my knees again.

[sassy69]

I don't think that I think of them as a "getting old" crutch. They don't really give much, if any, boost to the lift but they do a fine job of keeping the joint warm and helping it to feel supported.

It's a hassle to feel that I have to put on knee sleeves every time I squat but they do help. I'm sure I'll stop using them when I'm happy with my knees again.

This is what I was thinking of. I really try to keep my lifting paraphenalia to a min because its a pain in the ass to drag it all up the stairs & then back down at my gym - not the most efficient eqpt lay out there. The other thing is that they don't go on well over tennis shoes, so I put them on before I went to the gym and wore them Jane Fonda leg warmer style until needed. And then same on the way out. The ones I have are nylon so I was interested to see if they were enough support w/o having to go to the neoprene ones. I don't like all the thickness balling up in the back of my knee. The tendons back there are part of what makes my knees tweaky so any additional crap pushing on them can contribute to the problems.

So anyway, after a 6 min bike warmup and my chest stuff, I hit the squat rack w/ the sleeves pulled up. I was a little slow going down the first couple times, but in all honesty, it worked great. I was able to go all the way down & back up ... I worked on different foot positioning & focus on different things to see if one worked better than the other. Generally all was good going from bodywt, to squats holding a plate, up to the bar and then w/ added weight up to 105. Here it was a cross between knees having done nearly 200 ATF movements w/ various weights, and just being under weight that made the whole leg work a little harder. The last set I did was bodywt, go down in the bottom, sit there a few seconds and then come back up. This was huge for me.

I followed this up w/ 2 x 3 sets of increasingly weighted step ups at 2 different heights. The value of this is 1) the ability to step up & down w/ control (vs dropping on the down step) and 2) more knee strength to help protect my left foot (the surgery foot) from getting too beat up - I still have to be careful about stepping off /landing on my toe /ball of the foot after bunion surgery.

Anyway, it was generally a success but me knees are sore now... e.g. hard to stand up / sit down. I need to ice them. Going forward, I'm working w/ one of the trainers at my gym for more squat work and considering doing more of these plate weighted squats and step ups as part of my general warmup instead of just on leg day. To a degree this stuff is more like physical therapy work than weight lifting.

[~R~F~G~]

That does look like a PT routine but if it works to get you back where you want to be than good.

I am going to get some knee wraps this week (APT of course) I have held off on using any equipment besides my belt which I only use after 225, but I think it's time to start.. Like you said about the reading glasses, I had to get them last year.. Getting older sucks but giving in is not an option so I need to alter me, my equipment and my routine if I want to keep growing.. I am at a good weight now I am 225 at 5'11" and my abs now are better than that avatar pic.. I just want to increase my leg size...

After teh summer I am going to drop the upper body workouts to a once a week circuit and do legs every other workout.. Upper/Monday - Legs/Wednsday - Upper/Friday - Legs/Sunday

Making sure recovery is complete but you get the picture.. Getting shoulder surgery in November so that will be 1 month off and then 1 to 2 months of legs only... Next year I will be happier with my overall appearance...

Thanks for all the input.. I will put it to use for sure..

[MR. BMJ]

I would post this up on the rehab board and see what both Killer and BodyGoals have to add with it.

In fact, i'm gonna duplicate this thread for ya with a threadover there too. So you'll have this same thread over in the rehab board too:)

BMJ
:bmj: