Proper Barbell Row Form

[The Dynasty]

Whatsup World?

I was wondering if someone can shed some light as to what they considered proper form for bent over barbell rows. I've received two conflicting suggestions. So I figured I'd get a concensus here. This is my first time doing them, as I used to heavy dumbell row. But I wanted to try something new in attempts of gaining some mass and a wider back. Thanks in advance.

[Nick]

What you're really looking for is Pendlay Rows.

Knees slightly bent, back arched, 90 degree bend of the waist, explosive movement off the floor.

People will look at you like crazy, you will grow.

This vid is often used as an example of good form:

YouTube - Pendlay Rows 250 X 5 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=UIUg8nDVEFs)

[The Dynasty]

What you're really looking for is Pendlay Rows.

Knees slightly bent, back arched, 90 degree bend of the waist, explosive movement off the floor.

People will look at you like crazy, you will grow.

This vid is often used as an example of good form:

YouTube - Pendlay Rows 250 X 5 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=UIUg8nDVEFs)

Hey Kabeetz,

Thanks man for the link. When I was putting my back routine together, I did a quick search on these boards and found the Pendlay's. But I figured since I've never performed barbell rows, perhaps I would try those first before moving on to the Pendlays. But hey, I'll give them a try. I just want to know that I'm performing the exercise right, or else I think more than actually doing the exercise during my actual workout. I'm gonna go with these next week.

[Stephen]

Whatsup World?

I was wondering if someone can shed some light as to what they considered proper form for bent over barbell rows. I've received two conflicting suggestions. So I figured I'd get a concensus here. This is my first time doing them, as I used to heavy dumbell row. But I wanted to try something new in attempts of gaining some mass and a wider back. Thanks in advance.

Read the description by madcow2 on this link:

http://www.************.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/bb-rows-madcow-366601.html

[The Dynasty]

Kabeetz, Stephen, I truly appreciate the quick responses.

[Horse95]

Once i got heavy with these I always just felt that it puts my lower back in a bad position and just don't do them very often.

[Blut Wump]

The more you do them, the less of an issue that should be unless you have a specific problem with your back. Try to get your bum out as ballast and you should be able to find a stable position. Maintain a slight arch.

[BiggT]

With rows, I think the Pendlay row is ideal. That video is about as good as anybody can do them.

If you don't like deweighting the barbell, you should still stay as close to 90 degrees as possible. The point of rowing is to activate the lats. The further away from 90 degrees you get, the less lats you use.

Most gym rats butcher rows, I'll go out and say I think rows are probably the most bastardized lift in gyms, most people have absolutely no idea how to do them. They end up doing what Madcow called the 'airhump maneuver'. Even if they manage tighter form, most people are nowhere in the neighborhood of 90 degrees. Basically, they get so close to vertical that they are doing jump shrugs or shrugs for the ones who don't use as much body English. They would be better served by putting some real weight on the bar and doing jump shrugs or clean pulls, a legit movement over a legit range of motion, because what they are doing sure as hell isn't training the lats.

[silver_shadow]

With rows, I think the Pendlay row is ideal. That video is about as good as anybody can do them.

If you don't like deweighting the barbell, you should still stay as close to 90 degrees as possible. The point of rowing is to activate the lats. The further away from 90 degrees you get, the less lats you use.

Most gym rats butcher rows, I'll go out and say I think rows are probably the most bastardized lift in gyms, most people have absolutely no idea how to do them. They end up doing what Madcow called the 'airhump maneuver'. Even if they manage tighter form, most people are nowhere in the neighborhood of 90 degrees. Basically, they get so close to vertical that they are doing jump shrugs or shrugs for the ones who don't use as much body English. They would be better served by putting some real weight on the bar and doing jump shrugs or clean pulls, a legit movement over a legit range of motion, because what they are doing sure as hell isn't training the lats.
ironically kickbacks are some of the most butchered! :D

i see guys do *kickbacks* with their upper arm perpendicular to the plane of the ground! they imagine that if they just concentrate on the tricep it'll become a tricep exercise instead of a curl apparently.... :D

anyway back on topic: i think one of the interesting things which i still haven't found any solution for is how do you do pendlays when the weight is sufficiently high? or do you look to replace them with something else (maybe t-bars using a barbell against the corner of the gym floor?)....?

[A L]

They would be better served by putting some real weight on the bar and doing jump shrugs or clean pulls


Now were talking.

[The Dynasty]

With rows, I think the Pendlay row is ideal. That video is about as good as anybody can do them.

If you don't like deweighting the barbell, you should still stay as close to 90 degrees as possible. The point of rowing is to activate the lats. The further away from 90 degrees you get, the less lats you use.

Most gym rats butcher rows, I'll go out and say I think rows are probably the most bastardized lift in gyms, most people have absolutely no idea how to do them. They end up doing what Madcow called the 'airhump maneuver'. Even if they manage tighter form, most people are nowhere in the neighborhood of 90 degrees. Basically, they get so close to vertical that they are doing jump shrugs or shrugs for the ones who don't use as much body English. They would be better served by putting some real weight on the bar and doing jump shrugs or clean pulls, a legit movement over a legit range of motion, because what they are doing sure as hell isn't training the lats.

And THIS is why I started this thread. I've just seen too many "variations" of this movement, that I knew that a majority of people out there were performing it wrong. Thanks again guys.

[Stephen]

Once i got heavy with these I always just felt that it puts my lower back in a bad position and just don't do them very often.

How much were you doing? There are guys who can do well over 400 pounds without their back ever rising above parallel.

[A L]

How much were you doing? There are guys who can do well over 400 pounds without their back ever rising above parallel.

These are guys that Deadlift ovedr 600 and bench over 400 as well - not very typical. I myself have never seen anyhting over 315, and that was me doing it...

:banana:

[getjacked]

How much were you doing? There are guys who can do well over 400 pounds without their back ever rising above parallel.

i can deadlift over 650 and i only do bb rows with 275-295 for 8 at max with good form. there are guys that can do 400, sure, but theyre very very rare.

most people absolutely butcher barbell rows.. i agree with the other poster that said they are THE most butchered lift in the gym outside of squats.

[BiggT]

Like anything, a row for a max set isn't gonna look like a warm-up, but there should be no need to butcher it. The reason you don't see many guys doing 405 for reps with good form is the same reason you don't regularly see 700lb deadlifts and 500lbs benches in the gym regularly and that is because there aren't gonna be a whole lot of guys in gyms strong enough to do that. It is perfectly do-able if someone is strong enough to work up to it. What you'll see is guys who aren't strong enough to use 225 with good form go ahead and do some kind of butchered shrug with 405. I'd say to be able to do a real Pendlay row with 405 for 5 reps, someone's raw flat bench is gonna have to be somewhere around 500 and their deadlift close to 700. That's the kind of strength proportionate to a row like that, and that ISN'T the kind of strength most gym rat "400lb rowers" have.

Anyway, so long as you're close enough to 90 degrees to activate the lats, it's a good row doing what it should be doing. For overloading the traps and upper back, I say put some real weight on and do clean pulls or jump shrugs.

As far as butchered lifts, triceps kickbacks don't count, nobody has any business doing them no matter what kind of form they have, lol.

[Evidence]

I find being a taller person I have never really felt comfortable with barbell rows. I am not saying I will never do them, but I do agree with a lot of the people here in argument of you find yourself compromising the exercises proper mechanics due to increased weight, then obviously it's not going to be ok to proceed with "butchered" reps. I am not the strongest person in the world and don't workout becasue I need an audience. I workout in a garage gym. But this is related to the start of the thread and i think you guys will probably say you understand what I"m about to say becasue you have had it happen to you as well.

Great friend of mine recently went back to college after being off school for a couple years. He asked if I'd like to go up and spend the day with him and we can go out and bar hop in the evening and just make a fun day out of it, I said sure that would be fun. He wanted me to train with him in their school weightroom. We were doing our stuff and part of my workout was I was going to do dumbell rows and pull ups. Their dumbells only go up to 100 and i said well that's ok, then i'll just mix it up and go high reps then. A group of 5 guys walk in, if i had to guess probably around 20 or 21 or so years old. Looked like they were ready for the club, not the gym. Wearing all name brand wear and their hair all gelled up and shit. They start their workout with barbell rows. You can just tell the way they are acting, the way they are built, these kids are not athletes or very strong and lift to have biceps for the evening out i guess. Not one of them was anywhere close of weighing anything near 200 pounds. And they start loading up the bar right away. No joke they couldn't do 145 if you made them get 90 degrees and do it properly. But they were working up to 315!!!!!!!!! It looked like a horrific shrug. I looked at my friend and was like i never voluntarily go over and tell people how to train or anything, but seriously bro that is ridiculous, they are going to seriously get hurt. And they were all whispering pointing at me like hey, that big guy is only rowing 100 pounds and he's doing pull ups? wft? I even heard the one kid say why would anyone who wants to get big do pull ups? My little brother does them in gym class.

I think I have said enough.

[Blut Wump]

I've been as far as three plates on these but I was introducing ever more body English the higher I went. As BiggT said, the closer you get to your max then the less the set will look like your bar-only warmups.

Here's a vid of me doing around 250, that I posted in another thread. I must get around to buying better clothing.
Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-253.5lbs-5x5 (http://media.putfile.com/Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-2535lbs-5x5)


Here's the thread, http://www.afboard.com/forum/fitness-training/1000-pendlay-row-question.html

[Hidngod]

I've been as far as three plates on these but I was introducing ever more body English the higher I went. As BiggT said, the closer you get to your max then the less the set will look like your bar-only warmups.

Here's a vid of me doing around 250, that I posted in another thread. I must get around to buying better clothing.
Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-253.5lbs-5x5 (http://media.putfile.com/Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-2535lbs-5x5)


Here's the thread, http://www.afboard.com/forum/fitness-training/1000-pendlay-row-question.html

Mine are similar except I have less range of motion 'cause my gut is bigger. :dinner: I keep my legs a little straighter, too. I kept getting hung up on my knees.

[BiggT]

I've been as far as three plates on these but I was introducing ever more body English the higher I went. As BiggT said, the closer you get to your max then the less the set will look like your bar-only warmups.

Here's a vid of me doing around 250, that I posted in another thread. I must get around to buying better clothing.
Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-253.5lbs-5x5 (http://media.putfile.com/Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-2535lbs-5x5)


Here's the thread, http://www.afboard.com/forum/fitness-training/1000-pendlay-row-question.html


That is how to do good, solid Pendlay rows with a big weight. It's still a lat exercise doing what it's supposed to do, but the form isn't gonna look like it's 185, unless you wanna become a fitness geek type of lifter who never goes over 185.

About the clothing, I think you and John Stockton shop for shorts together, lol. Seriously, you're looking thick and powerful. What are you weighing-in at? 275-280?

[Blut Wump]

Thanks, BiggT. I think that was taken around Oct last year. I was hovering just over 125Kg then so, yes, between 275 and 280.

[Gettinripped]

if one had a lower back problem and anything like a pendlay or bent over row hurt the back, what is a good subsituation move?? i guess I need to get to doing some pull ups. can't go too wide though due to shoulder injury.

[Blut Wump]

Believe it or not, I took them up because of a bad back. :)

If you get a slight arch into your lower back, Pendlay rows are really quite back-friendly.

[silver_shadow]

Believe it or not, I took them up because of a bad back. :)

If you get a slight arch into your lower back, Pendlay rows are really quite back-friendly.

agreed

[rmexico]

Here's me doing 305x3:

row 305x3 - Putfile.com (http://media.putfile.com/row-305x3).

My form gets pretty sloppy when I go over 280. I never taped myself rowing before. The more tired I get, the more it turns into a deadlift with air-hump lol.

[thecomeback]

Off topic but who is that Madcow guy?

[Hidngod]

Off topic but who is that Madcow guy?

He is/was a guru on the boards years ago. Really knows his shit when it comes to workouts & stuff. There's prolly a lot more to him, but that's what I know. Kinda like Obi Wan Kenobi of Iron Sports.

[neo22]

I've been as far as three plates on these but I was introducing ever more body English the higher I went. As BiggT said, the closer you get to your max then the less the set will look like your bar-only warmups.

Here's a vid of me doing around 250, that I posted in another thread. I must get around to buying better clothing.
Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-253.5lbs-5x5 (http://media.putfile.com/Last-set-of-Pendlay-Row-115Kg-2535lbs-5x5)


Here's the thread, http://www.afboard.com/forum/fitness-training/1000-pendlay-row-question.html

If you keep your wrists inline with your forearms you will activate your lats more. You bend them at the top of the motion. You have probably not noticed that though...

[Hidngod]

If you keep your wrists inline with your forearms you will activate your lats more. You bend them at the top of the motion. You have probably not noticed that though...

Interesting. Like little wrist curls. I'll have to check for that, too.

[Blut Wump]

I think they're cute. Thanks, Neo22, I'll look into that.