Build the Strength and the Mass will Follow

[Swole2112]

A while ago I knew a guy who believed that if you build strength and power that muscle mass would naturally follow. It seems like a sensible approach to me but I haven't done a lot of power lifting before. I completely agree with the philosophy, though. It seems to me that if one is going to have a lot of muscle mass they should be as strong as they look. In other words, if you're going to talk the talk make sure you can walk the walk. What's everyone's thoughts on the subject? Cheers.

[Curious George]

I mean....yes and no. Usually when you get stronger you gain size.....USUALLY!........It doesn't always happen and it relates to your bodytype. Some people have more fast-twitch fibers and get strong easily, while others have mostly slow-twitch and have good muscular endurance.

Getting strong does not always mean getting big. It is a different type of training to get strong.

In powerlifting, we usually stick to 1-3 reps on a maximum effort lift. We take long breaks inbetween sets to let our body recover for another all out effort. We also try and lift the weight as fast as we can....remember.....Force=mass*acceleration. If you are lifting a lighter weight with as much acceleration as possible, you are exerting a huge amount of force on the bar. That translates to more motor units being used to lift the weight.

Being big has a lot to do with your caloric intake and stimulation of muscle fibers. Shorter rest breaks, more exercises from different angles to stimulate the most growth, proper recovery......all are a part of muscle hypertrophy.

Basically, ask yourself why a 220 man has benched almost 800lbs, when a 300lbs bodybuilder might have a hard time benching 400?

I can break it down to the cellular level of hypertrophy if you would like?

There are 2 types of muscle growth......sarcoplasmic growth (where the volume outside the muscle cell gets bigger....usually a more bloated look to the muscle) and Fiber growth (the muscle fiber gets more dense....usually a lean powerlifter look).

If you would like I can break it down to how that relates to power and strength?

For powerlifting....check out: Dave Tate's Site
He knows his shit better than any of us when it comes to strength.

Let me know If I can help of haven't answered what you need to know.



Cg

[Curious George]

Make sure to check out Kyle's, Joepalookas, mine and Monster's log for strength......Killer's is more for a bodybulder.



Cg

[Swole2112]

The fact of the matter is that I want to be both big and strong. I don't want one without the other. If I could be huge, I would be willing to sacrafice some of that size for strength. I would rather have the look of a lean power lifter than a body builder. Even though a bodybuilder may have more volume, a lean power lifter just looks a lot tougher IMHO. For example, an old friend of mine who was mostly a power lifter was about 5' 7", about 170 lbs and I'd say about 8% BF. But, this guy looked damn strong. He'd bench 320 for a double and squat 405 for a triple. He just had a lot of dense muscle fiber. Those are my thoughts on the subject.

[joepalooka]

Ah muscle size vs. Strength great questions. I don't really have time to give a lengthy post I am rather busy. But I will get to them. On the bench and others.

Strolling down memory lane, once again. I benched 405 @175lbs. My squat sucked thou. As you look through the training logs you have to look at as a whole. The training we do is a monthly rotation but is a 3 month plan. By doing this we can evaluate what is working for us individually and what is not. There are ton of exercises and variations of each that make things interesting. I will not preach about muscle size, I maintain mine well with power lifting so it is a decision you must take to work on both and both need to be work in phases. Which leads into periodization.

But as to training goes. You should try perodization of 3 month blocks. Mass, Strength, and Power, then back to Mass. You will get the picture when I lay it out in another post for the bench. I have tried many different strategies which apply to the bench. I have taken a man barely benching 225 to bench 315 in 7 months. There are reasons why you have gone stale and I hope I can point some out to you. How you can avoid stagnation and hopefully spark new strength and mass in the pecs.

[Swole2112]

Hey Joe,

I would greatly appreciate any information you could send my way. I look forward to reading your future posts. Cheers, bro.

[archive_Killer]

Yup, the old size vs strength

Me? I want more size with strength, but would not give up size for strength.

I know several Olympic Lifters. They do not look fat, but I def would not say they are big or even that they "look" like they workout. But talk about strength!

[Curious George]

For a little more background to help you understand what it is that we do, check these links out.

The eight keys part 1

part 2

part 4

part 3

This is the basis of our strength workouts.

Check out www.elitefts.com for dave's site.



Cg

[FLEX 2000]

CG, when someone moves up a weight class why do they get stronger? is it because they now have more muscle, they have better leverages(sp?), etc?

thanks

[Curious George]

I believe it has to do with a couple of things:

The main one is the extra water/fat around the joint to cushion it. Have you ever seen a fat guy who is just plain strong but never lifted a day in his life? I know plenty working in the factory. It reminds me of the story that Monster told me about Clay Brandenburgh. He is already a meaty guy, but he used to drink pickle brine before a contest to retain more water.

Like you said in another post, when you want to go up in weight you do more acc work. Through the extra muscle growth of your back, traps, biceps or whatever, it shortens your range ever so slighlty. Take one look at Monster's ass or Joe's bench and you will see how the range isn't as great. Joe's bench is phenominal by the way and he has a lot of muscle mass and good leverages to move the weight. My range is longer due to longer arms and not as much upper back mass.

I believe those are just a few of the answers.....Do you have anything anecdotal to add?



Cg

	ASS Nelson Montana

[FLEX 2000]

thanks cg.

most of the guys on my powerlifting team have been in the same weight class for years and keep getting stronger. obviously the gear helps. its gotten better over the last few years, we have learned how to use it better etc. even though we all use gear our raw lifts have also gone up.

our bodyweight stays about the same but we all look alot bigger since we started powerlifting. we all look a weight class heavier then we actually are.

[joepalooka]

I would like to add here. As tendons do not grow as fast as muscle. I believe that it is tendons and ligament cross section increase is resposible for remaining in the same weight class and being able to lift more weight. I know gear improvements help but the strength gains with little to no muscle gain has to come from some where. I do beleive as the joints increase in dimensions that your leverages change and that person can handle more weight because the joints have adapted to the stress. Like those 165lbs guys with stick arms benching damn near 600lbs and the one guy from nazbar that benches over 600 @ 165 lbs. Its not the muscle mass it is tendons, neurological adapations and better motor learing.

Any body else every look into the anabolic actions of sodium? I know there are a few paper out there. I know when I was eating 8 cans of tuna a day for a few weeks my lifting vastly improved. I think I was taking in 5 times the RDA for sodium in a day.

[Swole2112]

Hey Joe,

I never heard of sodium having any anabolic effects. Sounds interesting, though. Perhaps I'll have eight cans of tuna/day. How did that effect your BP, though? What all do you know about the anabolic effects of sodium? Later, bro. Cheers.

[PQ]

Swiped this from a mednet article...

Sodium and Muscle Growth

Sodium is the primary positively charged ion in extra-cellular fluid. Sodium regulates blood volume, acid-base balance, muscle and nerve function and ATP-hydrolyzing activity in skeletal muscle. Potassium is the primary positively charged ion in intracellular fluid. Potassium regulates intra-muscular fluid levels, muscle and nerve function and ATP-hydrolyzing activity in skeletal muscle.

As you can see, sodium and potassium perform very similar functions with the major difference being in the intra and extra-cellular fluid regulation. Most everyone is aware that sodium has an effect on subcutaneous (under the skin)fluid retention. Potassium has its effect on fluid inside the muscle cell. What most don’t realize is that these two minerals are constantly striving for equilibrium. When one gets out of line with the other your system will strive to adjust to the underlying situation.

When you cut your sodium intake, your body will quickly compensate by holding more sodium in and releasing potassium out thereby decreasing fluid inside the muscle cell. When you increase your sodium intake your body will compensate by holding more potassium in (increasing intra-muscular fluid) and increasing the excretion of sodium.

Sodium, potassium and the balance between the two can have a prominent impact on muscle size and anabolism (increased cellular fluid inside the muscle cell promotes an anabolic response in muscle tissue) as well as strength through increase joint leverage. Also, elevated sodium and potassium levels will tend to prevent soft tissue injuries so common in heavy training.

Sodium's Influence

Increases muscle size through an increase in muscle cell fluid volume. Increasing cellular fluid increases protein turnover and overload stimulated lean tissue accrual.

Increased intra and extra-cellular fluid increases joint leverage positively impacting strength for greater muscle overload. Increased intra and extra-cellular fluid decreases muscle strains and helps protect soft and connective tissue from injury. Many critical amino acids are "sodium-dependant". This means they actually have to attach to a sodium molecule to enter the muscle cell....

You get the idea.

[joepalooka]

I would warn you not to eat this much tuna in a day. The mercury levels are astoundingly high. Mercury levels are present if you eat 2 cans a day. One of CG, Monster's and I's training partner is a nurse and was warned me of this and to get my blood checked the shot needed to dissovle the mercury. I eat a few bannana's a day with some brocolli for patassium and I add salt to most of my foods to get this affect. I haven't lately thou.

When I was eating this much tuna I had a few good weeks of lifting. I couldn't tell you on how it may affect my max's but it just felt good to lift.

[Curious George]

Great PQ....NOW Joe is going to blame his bulging belly on being bloated from sodium.


Cg

[joepalooka]

No No No I will never confuse bloating and sodium! I blame my gut on beer and pizza! I bet there is a ton of sodium in pizza! And me stomach naturally sticks out because it has no where to go but out much like a pot belly pig on some day's!

I will start dieting soon enough. All I have to do is put down the beer and in a few weeks the fat will start dripping off my belly!!! It will be soon because I am getting tired of carrying the extra mass around. I think I will cut back to 190lbs

[This message was edited by joepalooka on 11-08-04 at 05:09 PM.]

[This message was edited by joepalooka on 11-08-04 at 05:09 PM.]