Hey killer I need your help agian....shoulder hurts...

[EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER]

Hey killer is me agian. Well since my last post about my shoulder problems they have gotten allot better and then allot worse. The rear delt are a sorness i had has went away after workouts. To get that to go away I concentrated on doing more direct rear delts and stretching allot and some icing after workouts. That is never a problem now. But as soon as that was gone I now have been getting pain in my front delts. Every time i bench makes it come back. Some times its one, sone time its the other....some times its both. Any thing that seems to put a strech on my front delts seems to make it hurt agian. Like benching (when i get to the bottom of the bench) and squats bother it too, as I hold all that weight, which puts a stech on the front delts. I have had ART done twice it helped allot, my shoulders feel dramatically better, way way more stable. I just now have these sharp pains in my front delts. Monday the last time i tried working out and my left one started to hurt, and i ended up aggrivating it pretty good. And all i did was 60lbs db presses and higher reps. I currently take glucosamine, chodroitin, and MSM. I don't really know where to go from here. As of today the pain is almost gone, it still feels like its healing though. Where should i go from here? Rest for a while and start back real low, some other supplements (legal or not legal), I will do what ever. I had planned one bulking for a little bit and cutting down....But at this rate, i can;t lift heavy. Any suggestions.

p.s. i still have been doing all my rotator cuff exercises

Thanks allot for your time in advance...

EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER

[archive_Killer]

Try all the tests from the other thread. Any pain? Any pain on stretches? Pay attention to the suprapsinatus test, arm out from body, about 40 degrees, thumb down. Also make sure to try the impingement test, arm across body, someone pushes up on elbow. Any pain when you are doing your normal rotator cuff exercises?

Also, can you do other chest movements, incline, decline, flys? How about bicep work?

Whne it is sore, can you palpate (touch) any pain or is it to deep or diffuse?

[EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER]

None of the movement from before hurt at all. Any chest movements seem to agrivate it agian. But whats weird is at firts it was both, then i worked out agian and only one hurt. Then i worked out another time and it switched to the other one. When i last benched on moday only the left one bothered me, the right felt great. Before that my right one was hurting for a good 2 weeks. It really starting to baffle me here. The pain in my joints seen to come a while after i stopped a cylce and had finished all my clomid, but i donlt know if hormone levels could be causing this now if test is too low or estrogen is too high? And yes some biceps movements have made it hurt, When i last did BB curls both of them got sore. I can pretty much push right on the point it hurts its not just all over. Thanks very much for taking the time here, its driving me crazy as i'm not going to do any exercises to aggrivate it.

EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER

[archive_Killer]

All right. So rotator seems to be fine, which is good. Weird how it is one shoulder, then both, and so forth.

Where exactly is the pain that you can push on?
Is it:
On the direct front of the deltoid, on top portion (proximal) or towards the bicep (distal), a little off to the side (lateral)?

I cannot remember, did you ever dislocate the shoulder? Did you ever play water polo or on a swim team? Do you noticing any cluncking around of your arm (humeral head)? Or does it ever feel like you arm is going to dislocate?

This is def a puzzling injury. Lucky you http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER]

I would say the pain in in the direct front to proximal. As of today it feel like they are going back to normal. And my knee hurts now ....WTF!!! But never mind that problem. Never dislocated, never done any of those sports. My shoulder use to pop alot, ever since i went and had ART it very rearely pops now. Never felt like it would dislocate.

Can hormone levels affect joints?

EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER

[archive_Killer]

Hormones probally have some effect on the joints, maybe one of the steroid gurus can answer that one. I know that hormone levels effect women's joints. During certain portions of the menstrual cycle, a female is more prone to ACL injury. I know some people who had to collect the saliva for the tests. Weird.

I am thinking that you may have some joint laxity (extra movement - hypermobile shoulder)in your anterior shoulder joint capsule - GH (glenohumeral)ligament. This would be why you have heard clicking. Many times the hypermobile shoulder is caused by the sports I asked about. But in your case, it is most likley genetic.

The further you go down on the bench, the more stress placed on the anterior capsule. The shoulder abducted and externally rotated postion (think squat or behind the neck press)places the anterior capsule in a very vunerable position (this position is actually called the dislocation position). So the humeral head is actually clunking around a little, causing the pain. Usually though, the clunking will irritate the rotators.

So what to do? Extreme measure would be to have surgery where they shrink your shoulder capsule. This is usually reserved for someone who has their shoulder falling out of socket all the time.

You should keep up the rotator program. Since you are now (well the best I can assess without performing some clunk tests) hypermobile, add in internal rotator cuff work - the opposite movement of your external stuff you are doing.

You may find that going deep on benches in flys will always cause some pain. Try benching with a towel or foam on your chest (to prevent full ROM).

You may want to add in some theraball (sitting on or lying) chest and shoulder exercises to fully develop all the stabilizing muscles.

If you can develop your rotator and other stabilizing muslces, you may find you can bench again. Maybe back off on frequency.

How about inclines? They usually do not stress the shoulder to the same degree. Try stopping around the chin. Do not touch the chest. Maybe hammer strength?

Try a wider grip on the squats. It may be a little easier on your shoulders.

It will be a combo of experimenting with exercises, angles, and frequency, along with a good rotator program.

Do not do behind neck press or behind neck pulldowns/chins. This will stress the anterior capsule also.

Crap, does this make sense or did I just ramble?

[EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER]

Sounds like it makes perfect since to me. Actully its kinda what i was thinking. I recently read a atricle about benching. It say that doing a FULL ROM, does not always mean to yor chest. Because of the way some people are built they should not go any lower than their joint capsule allows them naturally. And to find your natural rom, lay on you back like benching and go down. well mine stop about a 2" off my chest maybe a little less. So i think i have been giving my joint capsule a hard time. I'm Going to give it a rest, and start back slow and try to fix it. I never do behing the neck presses or pulldowns and i already thought they were bad for shoulders. Is there anything else i should avoid? I will try the wider grip on the squats definitly, i love those so theres no way i can stop on those. I already do internal and external exercises for mu cuff. But do you have a link to any sites that are good about strenthening exercises for cuffs or know of any books? I want to do everything i can to make my shoulders like they use to be if i can. How often should the exercises be done? Also what is theraball? And yes incline are a little less bothersome.

THANKS ALLOT

EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER

[archive_Killer]

It also makes sense that your previous injury may have been caused by the sholder joint laxity. Many times one is not instable in one direction, but can also be unstable in the posterior and inferior (down). This is called multidirectional instability. Also functional instability is becoming recognized as happening when the shoulder is put under high stress loads. It is due to the fatigue of the stabilizers of the shoulder.

No more exercises that you should avoid that I can think of. Watch out for deads, military press, and shrugs because they create a long lever stress on the shoulder, which can cause some shear force on the shoulder if you lack stabilzing control. But if ok, then go ahead. And deads are great for all the posterior muscles, whcih will help in scapulae control.

I know www.testosterone.net (http://www.testosterone.net) has had many rotator cuff articles with pics over the years. The also show extra exercises as the Cuban Press and ways to work the mid trap. Take a peek. Also, they recently have a series of "exercises you have never tried." There are a couple ones in there that you can use.

You want to make sure you hit all stabilizers in your exercise selections.
Scapular Control (shoulder blade)
Traps, serratus anterior, levator scapulae,
rhomboids, lats, pec minor
Humeral Control (arm bone)
Delts, pec major, lats, triceps, rotators

Check out the testosterone site and they have exercises that cover all of this.

Remember when doing rows for back, arch back, chest high, shoulders down and back. At end of set, keep arms straight and simply shrug straight back (no shoulder elevation). This is a great way to give extra work to the rhomboids and engage some mid trap.

A thera ball is also called a swiss ball. It is simply one of those big rubber balls that is unstable. Since it is unstable, you engage more stabilizing muscle on it.

How often is like any other muscles. At first, I would go higher reps, maybe 3 sets a piece 12 -15, almost to fatigue, 3 times a week or so. After you get some strength, I like to switch rep ranges and perform twice a week and push it harder.

www.fit-pro.com/rotatorcuff (http://www.fit-pro.com/rotatorcuff) (which I think I had you go to before) explains alot, although the exercise prescription is in clinical terms.

Take care and let me know if you have any other questions. I would not want to work at work http://anabolicfitness.infopop.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[lunchbox01]

Went through alot of problems with my left shoulder. I always felt pain in my front delt towards the top. It also botherd me when I would squat, because the bar would push on it. It turned out to be my A.C. joint. The joint was full of spurs and would be painful when compressed. I think a good way is to extend the arm straight out and then across the chest to the opposite side, which compresses the joint.
I replied to a post a while back for someone who was having shoulder problems, alot of info in it. I found ice to work temporarily, but I ended up having surgery. I think it is worth checking out you A.C. joint.
I now avoid any straight bar shoulder or bench exercises.

[EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER]

Well its now monday....shoulders feel good. Last friday they were feeling pretty normal so i did some real light shoulder presses with dumbells on;y going up to 60lbs. They went good as did the rest of my workout of back and triceps, i just left chest out. This Wed. will be the real test i plan on doing chest for the first time in a while. All this past weekend I worked exrtemely hard in my yard pulling all kinds of shit up and digging and lifting and carying heavy ass shit, and it didn;t bother me. And even today it still feels fine...So i guess untill wed. I won't really know how it really is untill i bench. That seems to be the one thing that might aggrivate it. Thanks agian to everyone who has taken the time to help.

EAST_COAST_BODYBUILDER