Disk Potrusion and Degeneration

[SteelPreacher]

ok guys, this is something I've been suffering with for quite a while and maybe there are some views you might have that can help. I have my whole lumbar section degenerated and between L4andL5 protruding rather nicely. I've already been to specialists of course. One guy wanted to fuse my back so I went to this other guy who's worked with a number of athletes (not to many weightlifters, cyclists and Marathon runners mostly, but he's very good)and my best bet if I want to keep lifting is to just deal with the pain, which comes and goes never for a set ammount of time maybe 4 weeks maybe six months. This conditioned has spurred on a few Vicoden binges so tht I don't have to stop training. Thanks in advance.

http://www.anabolicfitness.net/images/kp.jpg

Brother, thats about the extent of it. If nucleous is protruding through the annulous then in essence the reality is live with the pain or the surgery. Your obvious muscular recourse is to further strengthen spinal errector/ multifidus/ TVA musculature without axial loads.

Exercise, is your best recourse at the momment. It will improve the functional capability of your lumbar spine, but exercise itself is misleading. There is a precise way to go about strengthening your core. However, the ultimate reality might be that your heavy training days are over.

Im here if you need any further detail.

PEACE

235lbs of Twisted_Steel and pure Sex Appeal!

[SteelPreacher]

Thanks, any suggestions on that specific core training?

http://www.anabolicfitness.net/images/kp.jpg

[archive_Killer]

I have known a couple lifters over the years that had some disk herniations. As Twisted said, their really heavy days of lifting had to end, especially axial loading - squats.

One thing you want to do is find the lumbopelvic position that is most stable and pain free for you. It is called the spinal functional position. Teach yourself to to maintain this position while initializing extremity movements to enhance the strength of the lumbar stabilizers. Progression is made to bridging activites on a stable surface and to bridging using a thera ball. Once this is mastered, progress to control the position while doing all exercise and activities of daily living. I once had a conversation with one of the assistant ATCs with Oakland and they have several players who have to maintain the spinal functional position 24 - 7.

You may want to look into William's flexion exercises and McKenzie extension exercises. As far as a good core workout, go to www.testosterone.net (http://www.testosterone.net). They have had several illustrated articles that cover various aspects of core training.

Williams flexion, geez I forgot about that. Lord knows I have only taught it a million times. Do some research on a man by the name of Paul Check. His by no means the formost expert, and his transverse abdomenous testing ideas are a bit silly, but his got a damn good grasp on core conditioning. If your really serious about rehabing your back, and getting it as strong as possible then I urge you to invest in his "core conditioning" tape.

235lbs of Twisted_Steel and pure Sex Appeal!

[archive_Killer]

Twisted, have you read the article "Strong and Beltless" by Check (I think) or maybe King? If so, what are your thought? BTW, it was on test.net some time ago.

Killer, I havn't read that particular article, but the title would lead me to belive that it pertains transverse abdominous activiation and conditioning.

Thankfully, progressive minds in our field are understanding the utter futility behind the use of weight belts and valsalva as a means of creating intrathoracic pressure. This concepts has completely crushed the louie simmons of this world, who teach there athletes to blow there guts out against there belts when executed lifts.

Now, granted...... near maximal lifts are a different story, and I can understand the need for a belt in only that situation.

Fellas, here's a quick bit of info. Your rectus abdominus (the squares) are primarily flexors of the spine. They don't function as stabalizers because they are superficial to the deeper abdominals muscles like the tva and internal obliques. Getting a strong crunch or situp from heavy standing rope trunk flexion moves, ala LOUIS SIMMONS, isn't going to stabalize your core during a heavy squat.

235lbs of Twisted_Steel and pure Sex Appeal!

[This message was edited by Twisted_Steel on 09-18-2002 at 05:52 AM.]

[archive_Killer]

You hit it right on the head Twisted. The article even had some niffty diagrams. Does this mean that I can't wear my belt when doing tri pushdowns or crunches LOL?!

I threw away my belt years ago (previously used it for squats, deads, and military presses) and have never looked back.

If you guy's do decide to throw your belts away, initially reduce your poundages (that you wore a belt in)as your core is probally weak. Do not worry, your lifts will go back up.

[SteelPreacher]

Sorry for the long delay I've been stting up a new service on the Computer. Thanks guys for all the good info on the core this is undoubtedly useful for all!

http://www.anabolicfitness.net/images/kp.jpg

[archive_45goingon20]

Just like to relate my experience. I to suffer from degenerative disks. I also had a laminectomy 2 years ago (L5).

I really believed I would never do squats or deadlifts. My legs still suffer in developement from the neglection of these excersises.

My surgery was a partial succces, but I developed more symptoms of sciatic nerve pain a year later. I sought further advice through a new surgeon. He also tuned me on to a new physical therapist. These therapist really stress core strenghtening. I was skeptical at first, but after 3 months I felt stonger in the core. Now 6 months later I have gradually introduced squats, deadlifts, bent over rows, etc to my routine. Granted, I'm only deadlifting and squating 225 lbs. For me this is incredible though.

The thing about core conditioning is you can't use weights or heavy movements to strengthen the area. It's all about contracting your pelvous and squeezing the deep muscles. (I'm over simplizing) I have a whole log book of excersises and balancing movements if anybody is interested. They have become part of my life now.

I'm not totally healed. I still have pain from time to time. It is a hellava lot better though. It really is a miracle I can lift at all.

Never give in.

45

I have "moderately severe degenerative arthritis" of the lumbar spine and several areas of disc bulges that protrude. For years it was a bitch. A PM&R specialist told me to consider disability.

I tried meds, traction, chiro, acupuncture, massage, etc with some results but nothing lasting. I am not sure exactly what did it, but I began taking AS as prescribed by my medical doctor and doing just basic lifts. 135 was almost ouf of the question on deadlifts when I started - and even then I often could only do them once or twice a month or I would not be able to walk.

Now I do 365 LB st. legged deads for 10 reps.I never hyperextend, only go to straight up. And I am currently squatting 335 LBs for 10-15 (but I only go to parallel or sometimes a notch above.

I would not rule out that you will never axial load again. I know all the PM&R medical docs and chiro's say that - but I cannot believe it. I stretch hams very good,my inner thighs with chinese splits and my anterior quads. But I find that stretching my quadratus lumborum is even more essential.

I also hang from the overhead chin up bar for a minute several times a work out and also from the hyperextension machine. I get on the hyperextnsion bench and hang there for half a minute or so, then place my hands on my hears so they give a light downward (towards the top of my head) traction - I hear five or six vertebrae in the top of my neck and back go pop pop pop. Then I sort of swing there a bit hanging upside down. I do this between sets on deads or squats to decompress and it feels great.