Monster's Insulin Primer

[WarLobo]

Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if youre ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...

ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC

ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protien, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.

ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC

"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isnt always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.


INSULIN: NonAndrogenic but Anabolic

Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...


WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC

So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!


WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN

Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.


WHAT KIND DO I TAKE

Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.

WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE

Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.


DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS

There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.

HOW DO I DO IT

If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results (except fat!)

POTENTIAL PROBLEMS

Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)


Well, I cant think of anything else off hand that needs to be said, but if I missed anything, just ask. I may have taken somethng for granted and figured everyone would know or assume on their own...

LAte

Lobo

	ASS Nelson Montana

[Monster]

Hey! You found it!!!!
I had given up on ever seeing that post again... youre beautiful!
Im gonna copy it for my personal records [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy"

"My existance is a ripple through time"

[Monster]

BTW, did you get it from Elites archives? I was curious about the date when I wrote it, Im wondering if the particular anabolic substance Im using can be the reason for my few random coherent thoughts?

Heh heh, either way, Im just soooo happy to see it back in circulation!

You Lobo were, are, and shall continue to be THE MAN!

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"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy"

"My existance is a ripple through time"

[Temple]

Does the use of insulin have any effect on a normally functioning pancreas over a long period of time? This subject scares the shit out of me probably because the experience that I have is with diabetics who use long acting insulin. Listen to what the man says about not messing with it - if it spikes while you are asleep the consequences can easily be dead or irreversible brain damage.
My blood sugar levels tend to be naturally low - never much over 105 and sometimes as low as 70 without insulin so would that mean that I naturally have a greater than average insulin response? I store fat really easily which I think would make sense as you say it shuttle fat to storage as easily as everything else. This is where I get stuck in this thought process but what I am thinking is that if this is true could it be manipulated to my advantage and would a glucometer be necessary to monitor it (my family has an extra one if I want it)?
Templ

[Monster]

Im a little groggy right now, so I cant do this justice right now, but I wanted you to know I saw it and will answer tommorrow.

But briefly, I advocate fast acting insulin because its in and out quick. I work out late evening (get home about 8 sometimes) so I sometimes have my shot that late. With humalog, its out of your system so quick that it doesnt interfere with bedtime.

A glucose meter can be VERY useful. Not for the things I mentioned, but there is a very good strategy you can use with a glucose meter. You could do one HELLUVA keto diet with a glucose meter, too!

As for your insulin levels, they may be high, but your insulin sensativity in probobly not very good, so your body may not be very good at using it...

oh lord... need rest... quickly...

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"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy"

"My existance is a ripple through time"

[Daeo]

That's the post that made me try insulin in the first place. I love it now....

[retropump]

Have any of you women tried it yet????

[new@gettinbig1]

I have been reading up on it a bit. I have heard people speak highly of it...but then I have heard my share of horror stories as well. I am interested..but unsure of exactly how much and all that stuff. Also diet is very important from what I have been reading and you have to eat certain foods at certain times etc. I am looking into it.....maybe after my show.

[skydancer]

You know the FOF (fear of eating fat)that was drummed into my head for the longest time? Well now I have FOI (fear of insulin) because of all the bad stuff about carbs....sigh...I'm not ready to go here. (hmmm...yet.)

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Those who dare to fail miserably, can achieve greatly. - R.F. Kennedy

[Temple]

Just reminding you Monster that I'm waiting patiently for the fog to clear from your brain [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[new@gettinbig1]

BUMP.....help us ladies out Monster..Do you know any ladies that take insulin? How much they take? How they construct their diet etc?

[Daeo]

My girlfriend takes insulin. She only uses 8ius. The guidelines are exactly the same for a women as a man. It's a good idea to take in 10g of carbs per iu, although you can take less. Anytime I've gone under 10ius though I felt a little hypoglycemic. 2 hours later she take in 5g of carbs per iu. She hasn't had any fat deposition and has actually appeared to lose fat. It's different for everyone though. You may be able to get away with slightly lower carb counts. Remember to eat no fat within a 4-5 hour period after injecting it though. Also don't be scared of it. Unless your a complete moron you can definetely feel the hypoglycemic effects coming on and counteract them...

[Monster]

No one has really shown exogenous insulin to have the effect on the pancreas that exogenous test does on the HPTA.
I doubt anyone has ever tested the use of it over years or anything, but really, nothing should be used for that period of time anyway... I generally use it on cycle, and when Im off, Im off insulin too.
A glucosmeter isnt really necessary, since we arent really dealing with long term blood sugar maintainance, more of a quick hit and ruun type of thing. We're trying to accomplish a super-over compensation of glycogen post work out. Thats why I advocate the fastest insulin you can get!

Really, not to rip on anyone (and Im not thinking of any person in particular here, but of the type of person that all of us know at least one of), but insulin isnt that tricky to use. But only someone who can trust their ability to eat when they need to and do what they have to do should use it. I see so many people using gear, that come to me and complain that they arent making any gains. They think they have fake gear or something.
I sit down with them, and it usually ends up that they are eating 2000 or less calories a day, but until they actually write out what they eat, they SWEAR theyre packing in food all day!
So if youre too busy to get meals in during the day, and too busy to take care of post work out carbs and such... its not for them!
But its NOT COMPLICATED TO USE! You can even make mistakes! As long as you have the presence of mind to see how you feel, you are in the clear.
Hypoglycemia is not something that can be missed, and when it hits, you still have a good amount of time to catch it.

What daeo said is right, but applies to "R". The initial hit from Humalog is 15 minutes, and the spike is at an hour.

10g of carbs per IU is the general guidline, and the more you use, the more you can cram into your muscles. At least until you get to the point where they are full, then it spills over to fat!
Thats why I experimented with using less, to see how little I could realistically use. 5g usually keeps me in the safe zone, and at 5'10" and 263lbs., I need more than most people will use, so it a decent number to work with. You can adjust it as you feel the need.

Ive helped a few women use insulin. It helps to have someone with you who knows you use it, so they can be there if you panic. Worst case scenario, have a sugary drink, like Coke or Pepsi or something if you feel like your hypoglycemic and starting to panic. Its not the ideal carb, but if youre freaking out, it will work fast and let you calm down.

But yeah, man or woman, its exactly the same.
I use 10iu's post workout, and that is EXTREMELY conservative! Ive used as much as 25-30iu's and been completly safe, but Id rather go the more conservative route and avoid any minimal fat loss that the aditional iu's might cause.

But like I said, a glucose meter can be a great tool for ketogenic diets.

If anyone has any specific personal questions, feel free to mail me, and I can help you work out specific issue you might have...

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"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy"

"My existance is a ripple through time"

[Temple]

A glucose meter can be VERY useful. Not for the things I mentioned, but there is a very good strategy you can use with a glucose meter. You could do one HELLUVA keto diet with a glucose meter, too!

As for your insulin levels, they may be high, but your insulin sensativity in probobly not very good, so your body may not be very good at using it...

What can it be used for besides a keto diet?
I really need to go back to school...high insulin
levels but poor sensitivity? Can you explain the sensitivity part a bit?
Thanks
Temple

[Monster]

Besides the keto diet, I dont think its very useful, since we're working with a small window of active life on the insulin (fast acting).

As for the rest... well, you can have normal insulin levels, but your body can be very inefficient at actually using the insulin that is present...
They say that people growing up on high carb and sweets diets since they were kids (pop, chips, cookies... all that good stuff kids love) has made them insulin resistant. Not that they arent producing insulin, but they arent using it right. I think it is basically that youve produced such an overabundance of insulin over the years, that you "forget" how to use it!
They say it is one of the main factors in the big influx of cases of adult onset diabetes...

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"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy"

"My existance is a ripple through time"

[new@gettinbig1]

Thanks for the great info Monster!! It was very helpful!!

[Temple]

Thanks Monster! Do you know if clean dieting for an extended period of time will improve a person's sensitivity?
Temple

[retropump]

Regulating your insulin production by eating low GI food combos and small meals will improve insulin senstivity. But I think it's important to emphasize that insulin insensitivity is not caused by eating to many high GI carbs!! Desensitization of insulin receptors requires fat, leptin AND glucose floating around. This is another good reason to keep fat out of you high carb post-workout drinks and especially stay away from fat while you're using extra insulin.

[Thunder]

Gluconeogenisis is a very interesting way of putting on 20-30 pounds of lean just muslce with insulin.
"If you guys look on a Biochemical pathwyas chart you can clearly see that when hepatic and muscle glycogen stores are depleted but before the body dropps into Ketosis the body starts to convert amino acids into Glucose to maintain blood glucose levels. Th process is known as gluconeogenisis."

The word gluconeogenisis means "the birth of new glucose"

For more info look on page 35 of Peak Magazine Issue #5b.

I have used this method to sprout new muscle while avioding fat please read the actual article before trying this. It is possible to put on 20-30 pounds of lean muscle in 3 months time with minimal fat gain with Insulin. i started with 600gra