Odd question regarding catabolism

[ThaiBoxa]

I have a close friend (no its not me, really is a friend) who is addicted to drugs and alcohol. He has been struggling with this for a while. He use to be a dedicated bodybuilder, but now I watch him literally wasting away due to his habits. I am giving him the support he needs to clean him up, but I know it will be a slow process. He still works out and tries to eat right, but his habits prevent him from gaining or even maintaining anything he worked so hard to get, which makes him want to give up. I began to think then, perhaps I could get him on something safe and anti-catabolic such as Anavar to help prevent any further catabolism until he gets clean. I am willing to split the expensive cost with him to help him out, but what would be the lowest effective dose for preventing catabolism? Would 10mg ED be enough combined with 5g creatine? Isnt that around the dose that they give AIDS/cancer patients when the drug is legally used?

"Satisfaction is the death of desire"

	PureCEE PureCEE delivers increased strength, pump and muscular endurance without abdominal bloating or subcutaneous water retention often found with creatine monohydrate. PureCEE uses the finest and purest Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL.

[archive_Mickey]

Why not just use dbol then?

It is a lot cheaper.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[bigboy]

It soulds like your friend has a serious drug problem. I really think you need to support him and help him try to stop whatever is using and skip the AS. Get him clean for awhile.

You are a good friend and are starting a walk down a long road that will be difficult for both of you. Good luck.

In response to your question-10 MG of ox is a nice bridge. So is dbol.

[Monster]

Throwing some "helper-drugs" at an addict is not the route to take.

Really, hes wasting away due to drug and alcohol addiction and youre worried about him losing his bodybuilding gains? Youre worry should be for his life.

He needs to get clean first. Forget maintaining his gains... the cleaning out process is not neccessarily a first time success. He may be relapsing back and forth for a while before he gets clean.

Psychologically you should not be introducing a drug to help him "maintain" till he gets clean. Getting clean is about getting off of ALL drugs. Not just CERTAIN ones.

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"I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume."

"Trying is the first step towards failure."
"Well, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is... never try."

[ThaiBoxa]

Well I'm not saying D-bol is any better for the liver that Anavar, but I am concerned about the stress and side effects that D-bol or anything else for that matter will put on his body which is why I thought Anavar was the best choice. You see, what made me think of this idea is that I have seen him get very depressed looking in the mirror and seeing his body waste away, and he ends up resorting to drugs and alcohol, the reason for his problem, to deal with his depression. I have convinced him to attend both AA and NA, and I sacrafice my time to join him for support. He has improved since joining. He does relapse here and there, but he has taken it all down a notch as far as the drugs he does, but I know my friend well, and I know for a fact if he sees improvement in his physique, it will motivate him to kick the habits. And yes I realize this is still a drug, but it is irrelavent in relation to the drugs he has been doing, and I would even say caffeine has more side effects that Anavar, and caffeine is a drug none-the-less. Getting back to the psychological matter, perhaps I could sneak tha Var in with the creatine, then he wouldnt even know he would be taking it.

"Satisfaction is the death of desire"

	PureCEE PureCEE delivers increased strength, pump and muscular endurance without abdominal bloating or subcutaneous water retention often found with creatine monohydrate. PureCEE uses the finest and purest Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL.

[madmaniac]

i dont think taking more drugs is the answer.

[macdaddy]

Thaiboxa, maybe you need an alanon meeting. You are not helping your buddy by trying to help him.

[archive_Bjaarki]

I admire your loyalty to your friend, but it sounds to me like you have more invested in his "improvement" than he does. Addicts are very good at that, at getting other people to take responsibility for them. Doing so infantilizes them and, in the end, compounds their problems.
And I have to add that I think you have some weird ideas going there, Thaiboxa. I hope your point about slipping some anavar into your buddy's creatine was meant in jest.


I have a friend who lives out of state and has an intermittent problem with crystal meth. I'm the only bro of his who "helps" him with it. How? I just ask him about it everytime I speak to him, which is once or twice a week. I just ask, nothing more. "How's your meth use going, bro?" He's honest with me and he'll tell me it's okay he's not using, or it's not okay and he's using again. My response is always the same: "Okay. Just keep me posted." No heaps of praise for success, and no judgment for failure. Just the plain observation of the fact of his use / not use. He's a big boy and will have to defeat his monster by himself. But he knows he's not alone and I'm watching.

George Vaillant, one of the "deans" of alcohol studies, once said to a group of people who treat alcoholics, "Alcoholics are people who heal themselves. We're just lucky to have the opportunity to watch."

If you have ears to hear, hear.

Bjaarki

... Then, do what you have to do.

[This message was edited by Bjaarki on 08-31-04 at 08:08 PM.]

	PureCEE PureCEE delivers increased strength, pump and muscular endurance without abdominal bloating or subcutaneous water retention often found with creatine monohydrate. PureCEE uses the finest and purest Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL.

[Monster]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
And yes I realize this is still a drug, but it is irrelavent in relation to the drugs he has been doing,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Pschologically he doesnt need creatine, he doesnt need glutamine, he doesnt need boron or wild yam roots.

He needs to start living without the aid of ANYTHING.

You show how unaware you are of the working of a junkies mind when you say a drug is irrelevant. Addiction is not about the substance, its about the ADDICTION. Its about the dependancy on taking something to do something.

If youre serious about helping him youll do as bjaarki says. Just be quiet and use your ears to hear.

He doesnt need your suggestions, he doesnt need your help. He needs support in the form of knowing someone cares, not that someone is going to do [i]something[/] for him. Thats his root problem, he turns to something (or someONE) for a solution.
He has to want to help himself, then he needs to learn how to do so. On his own.

-------------------------
"I was told that I could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume."

"Trying is the first step towards failure."
"Well, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is... never try."

	PureCEE PureCEE delivers increased strength, pump and muscular endurance without abdominal bloating or subcutaneous water retention often found with creatine monohydrate. PureCEE uses the finest and purest Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL.

[macdaddy]

Bjaarki, I'm a little suprised to see you quote Jesus Christ.....