Androderm use questions

[rob45840]

Hello, newbie here. Im using androderm 2.5 daily. Im 50 years old and have lifted regularly for over a decade. After 15 days Im noticeing a difference in energy and muscle tone also slight tenderness in left breast. At this low dose is there concern about elevated estrogen? Any comments, suggestions and advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[archive_Ulter]

The biggest problem with gels is that they spike your test for a short time and this can result in an equal spike in estrogens.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein

[rob45840]

Thanks I appreciate your response. I know that perhaps the dosage is low in terms of what others use but an effect has been noted. I only hope I get as good results or better than I did with norandro sublingual. Would it be safe, or prudent to use some nor also? Sorry to be such a novice but I have to start somewhere, declining muscle mass is no fun at this age. Thanks

[rob45840]

What can I do to offset any estrogen spike?

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
The biggest problem with gels is that they spike your test for a short time and this can result in an equal spike in estrogens.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont understand why you keep saying that. All my literature about androgel and everything else I have ever read about these and similar products indicate 24 hour absorption and release into the blood stream...as a matter effect androgel was formulated for the reason to avoid the blood spikes of INJECTIONS.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advice.

[dahmer]

I used a test gel for puffy nipples. It was suppose to reduce fat deposits when applied to the nipple area. As far s the reduction? None! As far as test? It shrunk my balls. But thats it. The dose was too low to get any gains. I think you would have to bath in it to get a healthy amount of test in you.

[archive_Ulter]

Since when does injected esterfied test cause a spike?

Maybe you can educate me. I was told that test gels cause a spike. How is the test prevented from entering the blood stream all at once? When I apply it, the gel is gone in an hour from my skin. So you're saying it's held in the skin and the test is cleaved from the gel over 24 hours?

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein

[archive_Mickey]

Dahmer you really do have to take a bath in it.

I have the Androgel and it says you only get 10% of the concentration. So in the 50mg packs I would only get 5 mgs per application. A waste if you ask me. My doc wanted me to take a packet every 3 days
I looked at her like I was nuts and then she told me to take a pack everyday. On top of that she gives me 5 refills for it though she wants me to come back in 4 weeks to get tested and put me on injections. She said that she has had bad results with the Androgel.

I wouldnt think that injected test causes a spike becuase it has an ester attached to it that regulates its release into the body. Or thats what I thought.

"Come on, get serious!" Arnold in Pumping Iron

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
Since when does injected esterfied test cause a spike?

Maybe you can educate me. I was told that test gels cause a spike. How is the test prevented from entering the blood stream all at once? When I apply it, the gel is gone in an hour from my skin. So you're saying it's held in the skin and the test is cleaved from the gel over 24 hours?

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly; at least that's what the medical insert says. And there is a spike from injections...it happens over 48 hours for enanthate for instance....

http://www.androgel.com/pdfs/androgel_prescribing.pdf

Pharmacokinetics
Absorption
AndroGel ® is a hydroalcoholic formulation that dries quickly when applied to the skin
surface. The skin serves as a reservoir for the sustained release of testosterone into the
systemic circulation. Approximately 10% of the testosterone dose applied on the skin
surface from AndroGel ® is absorbed into systemic circulation. Therefore, 5 G and 10 G
of AndroGel ® systemically delivers approximately 5 mg and 10 mg of testosterone,
respectively. In a study with 10 G of AndroGel ® , all patients showed an increase in serum
testosterone within 30 minutes, and eight of nine patients had a serum testosterone
concentration within normal range by 4 hours after the initial application. Absorption of
testosterone into the blood continues for the entire 24-hour dosing interval. Serum
concentrations approximate the steady state level by the end of the first 24 hours and are
at steady state by the second or third day of dosing.
With single daily applications of AndroGel ® , follow-up measurements 30, 90 and 180
days after starting treatment have confirmed that serum testosterone concentrations are
generally maintained within the eugonadal range.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Life Extension does not recommend testosterone injections. Natural testosterone patches, gels, or creams provide a consistent supply of testosterone through the skin and avoid the "spike" associated with testosterone injections. (For a complete explanation, refer to the Male Hormone Modulation protocol.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-003a.shtml


Please note, this is more applicable to HRT, when doing a steroid cycle with injections 2-3 times per week the spike obviously becomes insignificant

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advice.

[This message was edited by Mr. Nobody on 04-20-04 at 08:34 PM.]

[archive_Ulter]

The injection spike is, like you said, when the test is injected every 2 weeks like the normal HRT is/was administered. If you're injecting E3D that's not going to happen.

This is very interesting and also means I should revisit this, so I thank you. Not for me but for my wife who was using the gel. She was told that the sides she was getting of fluctuating E levels was the result of gel "spikes".
Now if I can just remember the name of the guy who told me this. It was Macro something I think.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." -Albert Einstein

[rob45840]

Perhaps one of the reasons Im getting some results is that Im using lef creatine,whey and glutamine. In my novice mind test is test and no matter what method of ingestion or dose it is going to make some differance, especially if ones levels are not those of a 27 year old. these meds were designed to raise levels safely with minimum sides. From what Ive read, Im probably getting better safer results than those who are using methyldienolone. I know this is test a real androgen

	PureCEE PureCEE delivers increased strength, pump and muscular endurance without abdominal bloating or subcutaneous water retention often found with creatine monohydrate. PureCEE uses the finest and purest Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL.

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
Now if I can just remember the name of the guy who told me this. It was Macro something I think.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I remember that guy....he used to post once in a while; was pretty knowledgable, like he actually studied that crap, lol Macrodamia...lol

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advice.

[archive_Cyp]

I thought androgel was crap, I was on it for 4 months a felt jack. I have to go with Ulter on this. He described EVERY symtom that I felt on it. MD's just have some weird problem perscribing injj test!

Mine insisted it would have effect my liver and would be too much test at once! They ARE F*uck'n morons. Even though my test was at 70nd and the range for my age was 400. I'm done with MDS, im sticking with the Black market! I was litteraly yelling with my endo, bc she could back what she was saying. Needless to say IM switching!

Oh dont ya think its weird how they have all this adv. in the office for androgel/androderm. They get kick backs for writting scipts for it.

[Wood]

One of the real problems with testo creams is that fat contains a high amount of aromatase and so as it passes into systemic circulation it can almost completely aromatize. There is also documented cases of androgenic contamination of children and women (partners) who come into contact with guys using it. One female child has hormonal problems as her dad worked out at home, the bars were contaiminated with testo cream and she would play on the exercise equipment.

[LiteBar]

This post is only somewhat near to being on topic, but follows Wood quite well.

My uncle's daughter was masculinized at 1-2 years old by over-spray from the first Andro spray. It was just andro in alcohol and a good bit of alcohol dried between the sprayer and his skin falling to the ground as a very fine white powder. This stuff was from the company that has a blue lable with red writing and are known for hyping how great the are while being pencil necked sweeties.

My uncle wont let me say or write the companies namoe outlowd without taking a swat at me. When he called them and told them what the Dr and health dept found them they told him he should have known better and to sue. Since he was in Canada that wasnt a option....too bad!

[archive_way2skinny]

I've been using Androgel and later Testim under my MD for about a year. I haven't noticed any effects that might be from "spikes" in T levels. I've even tried to benefit from such spikes by applying it just before workout and haven't noticed any change from application in the morning, or night.

What I find does matter is make sure your skin is clean and dry. They recommend application right after showering and I really think that's best. Any sweat or oil on your skin and the stuff just balls up into goo that won't absorb into your skin.

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by way2skinny:
I've been using Androgel and later Testim under my MD for about a year. I haven't noticed any effects that might be from "spikes" in T levels. I've even tried to benefit from such spikes by applying it just before workout and haven't noticed any change from application in the morning, or night.

What I find does matter is make sure your skin is clean and dry. They recommend application right after showering and I really think that's best. Any sweat or oil on your skin and the stuff just balls up into goo that won't absorb into your skin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally concure with you.
Do you like Testim better than Androgel?

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advice.

[archive_way2skinny]

Actually I like Androgel better than Testim.

No perceivable difference in T levels between the two either from subjective feelings or blood tests.

No difference in cost to me, since insurance pays. But I think Androgel is cheaper.

Testim leaves a sticky residue on my skin no matter how well I rub it in. My shirt sticks to it and I get pieces of lint stuck to me. Androgel doesn't do that.

And I don't like the little toothpaste tubes that Testim comes in. It's hard to squeeze all the gel out. I'm a strong environmentalist and I strive to minimize the trash I contribute to the world's pollution. The little tubes are very wasteful packaging and that irritates me. Androgel comes in a more sensible foil packet.