Dr Macro's Fat Burning Science Project - Thermorexin

[archive_Ulter]

We don't have a name yet so we are jokingly calling it Brand X. It should be in the store May 9.

Thermorexin - The Shock and Awe approach to Fat Burning.

Thermogenica and Anorectants
Synephrine hcl
Caffeine usp
Yohimbine hcl
Black Tea
Green Tea

Fortitude and Focus
2-oxo-pyrrolidone
DMAE
Vinpocetine
Acetyl-l-Carnitine
Acetyl-l-Tyrosine

Lipolytic environment
Glucorell R r-lipoic acid
Biotin

Adaptogen and bioavailability complex
Kelp
Rhodiola Rosea
Bioperine®
Ginger root extract

Performance minerals
Zinc
Magnesesium
Copper

Metabolic and recovery complex
Vitamin B1- Thiamine
Vitamin B3- as co-factor Nicotinamide
Vitamin B5- as d-calcium pantothenate
Vitamin B6- as co-factor Piroxidal-5-phosphate
Vitamin B12- cyanocobalimin
Vitamin C


Retail for 180 Capsules is $90
Discount code to follow.

[This message was edited by Ulter on 04-30-2003 at 09:14 AM.]

	Glucorell Glucorell R helps shuttle carbohydrates into your muscle cells instead of your fat cells by increasing insulin sensitivity and the uptake of glucose.

	Green Tea Green tea is a plentiful source of anti-oxidents. One of these EGCG has been found to be the most effective at raising metabolic rate.

	Thermorexin Thermorexin creates a complete thermogenic, anorectic and lipolytic environment to allow for optimal fat burning. What this means is that it increases your metabolism, helps manage your appetite and increases the use of stored fats for energy.

Ulter,
with all that stuff, the capsule probably
weighs 1/4 lb.

Sounds like a cutting edge product.. good luck.

Doggy

[rocko]

I agree with you doggy. Ulter, I thought that this would be in some sort of fat burning pill, not a fat burning meal .
I'm interested to hear what some of the chemists have to say, Fonz, Bjaarki, etc, and can't wait for the impending discussion.

Pain is temporary,
Pride is forever.

[DaMan]

Holy shit.

I'm curious what the dosages on the individual items are.

BTW, synephrine vs. norephedrine/ephedrine? I know the legal reason, what about the scientific one - does it perform the same?

Macro, just let me know...

[global]

It looks great, but as the others have commented that's a lot of ingredients, I hope the actual amount of each ingredient in the pill is enough to be an effective dose and not just tiny amounts of each.

_____________________________
JESUS LOVES YOU (Everyone else thinks you're a ****)

[BrahmaBull]

Because I weigh 220+, I'm supposed to take six of these a day, right?

Looking forward to advance comments. I had an easier time last year than ever before with cutting, partly (I think) because of stuff from the AF store.

What about "Blow Torch" as a name for this stuff?

BB

[Fonz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
We don't have a name yet so we are jokingly calling it Brand X. It should be in the store May 2.

Brand X - The Shock and Awe approach to Fat Burning.

_Thermogenica and Anorectants_
Synephrine hcl
Caffeine usp
Yohimbine hcl
Black Tea
Green Tea

_Fortitude and Focus_
2-oxo-pyrrolidone
DMAE
_Vinpocetine_
Acetyl-l-Carnitine
Acetyl-l-Tyrosine

_Lipolytic environment_
Glucorell R r-lipoic acid
Biotin

_Adaptogen and bioavailability complex_
Kelp
Rhodiola Rosea
Bioperine®
Ginger root extract

_Performance minerals_
Zinc
Magnesesium
Copper

_Metabolic and recovery complex_
Vitamin B1- Thiamine
Vitamin B3- as co-factor Nicotinamide
Vitamin B5- as d-calcium pantothenate
Vitamin B6- as co-factor Piroxidal-5-phosphate
Vitamin B12- cyanocobalimin
Vitamin C


Retail for 180 Capsules is $80
Discount code to follow.

[This message was edited by Ulter on 04-21-2003 at 10:45 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're going to have to put quantities down b/c while most of these ingredients are quite good...its the amount of each that really counts.

Green tea and Black tea. Has to be standardized to 95% Polyphenols and 60% catechins in order to give a good bolus of ECGC's(Green teas thermogenic component).

Acetyl-L-Carnitine needs to be used in the 1g+ Range/day...maybe even more.

Synephrine...hmm........not sure why macro out this in as it isn't really worthwile.

Kelp doesn't do much. Guggulsterones would have been a better addition.

Apart from that...the rest of the ingredients are good.

Fonz

No Pain....No Gain.....No Spain

----Barcelona 1992

	Glucorell Glucorell R helps shuttle carbohydrates into your muscle cells instead of your fat cells by increasing insulin sensitivity and the uptake of glucose.

	Green Tea Green tea is a plentiful source of anti-oxidents. One of these EGCG has been found to be the most effective at raising metabolic rate.

[MrClean]

Found this on synephrine vs. ephedrine; hope it helps.

Ephedrine vs. Synephrine
By Alan E. Shugarman, MS, RD

This information was published in Flex Magazine, October 1999 issue, in the Advanced Nutrition section.

Since very little published research compares supplementation of ephedrine to synephrine in lean individuals, I set up a study at the University of Utah that compared these two compounds to one another as well as to a placebo. The test formulations contained either 24 milligrams (mg) of ephedrine or 10 mg of synephrine. These are the common supplement industry dosages of ephedrine and synephrine.

Both formulas also included 300 mg of caffeine, 12 mg of yohimbe and 200 mg of quercetin.The synephrine mixture also contained 50 mg of Scizonopeta tenuifolla and Ledebouriella divaricata, two Chinese herbs known to produce a warming effect. The study was a double blind, placebo controlled crossover design, and used 20 young healthy subjects, 10 men and 10 women. Resting metabolic rate, respiratory exchange ration, body care temperature, heart rate and blood pressure were measured.

Resting metabolic rate increased significantly with the ephedrine mix versus placebo. The synephrine formula did not significantly elevate resting metabolic rate for any one 15 minute period during the 195 minutes of measurement.

However, by crudely extrapolating the 195 minutes of collected data over a 24 hour period, both the ephedrine and synephrine formulations showed a significant increase in total resting metabolic rate when compared to the placebo. Respiratory exchange ration decreased significantly toward fat burning with only the ephedrine formulation versus placebo. Body core temperature increased greatly with both the ephedrine and the synephrine formulas compared to the placebo. Heart rate was elevated considerably with the ephedrine versus placebo, but not with the synephrine. Blood pressure was elevated significantly following both formulations versus the placebo.

The bottom line here is that although the synephrine formulation seemed to have a mild effect, the ephedrine formulation outperformed synephrine across the board for elevating metabolic rate and shifting respiratory exchange ration toward fat burning. When you compare a synephrine based mixture to an ephedrine based one for fat burning potential, the ephedrine formulations appear to have the edge, based on available research.

Synephrine and ephedrine act differently upon alpha and beta adrenergic receptor sites. Ephedrine is an indirect and direct acting beta agonist with relatively slight activation of the alpha receptors; synephrine is a direct acting alpha agonist with relatively slight activation of beta receptors, via release of norepinephrine and epinephrine. This is important when attempting to determine the potential for fat burning, because the bottom line is that beta receptors, especially beta-3 receptors, are the key to burning fat.

Admittedly, in this study, the dosage of ephedrine and synephrine in each formulation was not equivalent, so these data cannot be considered conclusive; however, those who tout synephrine as superior to ephedrine for the purpose of getting lean are reaching for data that are not in evidence. Direct comparison studies using the same dosage of both ephedrine and synephrine are still needed. At this point, ephedrine has the edge, both in the scientific literature and in the gym, when it comes to fat burning ability.



Bald N' Brawn

[Fonz]

I would have dropped the synephrine altogether.
Green tea can increase your BMR by 4.5% and is non-stimulating to boot.(Ephedrine also increases BMR by 4-5% btw..but is very stimulative).

Fonz

No Pain....No Gain.....No Spain

----Barcelona 1992

	Green Tea Green tea is a plentiful source of anti-oxidents. One of these EGCG has been found to be the most effective at raising metabolic rate.

[archive_Ulter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You're going to have to put quantities down b/c while most of these ingredients are quite good...its the amount of each that really counts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The amounts are not in stone yet. However, whatever they turn out to be I am sure they will not be in Fonz Dosing Range.
The combination of the ingredients when used together has proven to be very effective. Just as a good lawyer doesn't ask a question he doesn't already know the answer to. We wouldn't offer a product if we didn't already know what the results will be for most people who will use it.

[Fonz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ulter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You're going to have to put quantities down b/c while most of these ingredients are quite good...its the amount of each that really counts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The amounts are not in stone yet. However, whatever they turn out to be I am sure they will not be in Fonz Dosing Range.
The combination of the ingredients when used together has proven to be very effective. Just as a good lawyer doesn't ask a question he doesn't already know the answer to. We wouldn't offer a product which we don't already know what the results will be for most people who will use it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK.......

I'm still wondering why macro put synephrine in there.

There existed better options.

Fonz

No Pain....No Gain.....No Spain

----Barcelona 1992

[This message was edited by Fonz on 04-21-2003 at 12:44 PM.]

once again impressive, but I would have liked to have seen Chromium picolinate, and vitamin E in there..........

but thats me =)

also a calcium source other than the one used for the b vitamin in there.

calcium ions are needed for muscular contraction, and general replenishment from austere diets and the use of stimulants

but I wil buy it simply for the tea ingredients, not to mention the other kickass ones =)

[Fonz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OMEGAone:
once again impressive, but I would have liked to have seen Chromium picolinate, and vitamin E in there..........

but thats me =)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chromium Picolinate is pretty much useless.
Unless you have a deficiency...which is doubtful.

Besides, Chromium Picolinate is much less bio-available then the newer version, chromium Polynicotinate.

Not worth sacrificing capsule space for that.

Fonz

No Pain....No Gain.....No Spain

----Barcelona 1992

[archive_macrophage69alpha]

synephrine is an A1 agonist, similar to nor ephedrine.. it is on this basis for appetite suppression and secondary thermogenic effect that is was added.


nor-synephrine, aka octopamine is worthless, as it is inneffective in humans.

green tea is 98% polyphenols

guggulsterones were left out as there is no clear cut evidence that
a. they work
b. which consitituents are actually active

MP

	Green Tea Green tea is a plentiful source of anti-oxidents. One of these EGCG has been found to be the most effective at raising metabolic rate.

[MrClean]

In a nutshell, what will Brand X bring to the table that NYC cannot?



Bald N' Brawn

[archive_macrophage69alpha]

btw-
10
100
3
120
50

MP

[Fonz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by macrophage69alpha:
synephrine is an A1 agonist, similar to nor ephedrine.. it is on this basis for appetite suppression and secondary thermogenic effect that is was added.


nor-synephrine, aka octopamine is worthless, as it is inneffective in humans.

green tea is 98% polyphenols

guggulsterones were left out as there is no clear cut evidence that
a. they work
b. which consitituents are actually active

MP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guggulsterones are worthless for thyroid function. The use of a simple digital thermometer can prove this while dieting.
What they are good for is mild acne......which affects a lot of people.

Nor-Synephrine studies are inconclusive IMO...but I can understand not putting it in there.

Fonz

No Pain....No Gain.....No Spain

----Barcelona 1992

	Green Tea Green tea is a plentiful source of anti-oxidents. One of these EGCG has been found to be the most effective at raising metabolic rate.

[archive_macrophage69alpha]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrClean:
In a nutshell, what will Brand X bring to the table that NYC cannot?

http://www.comet.lt/mrclean/images/mr_corner.gif

Bald N' Brawn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lot... though NYC and EC can still be alternated with it.. its a new option.. it does bring a multi faceted approch (which niether EC or NYC do)...

the ego would most certainly argue that it is superior to either.. hoever it is up to the individual to make that decision.. based on experience

MP