ANOTHER reason benzyl is BAD

archive_macrophage69alpha · 02-13-2003, 04:33 PM

the tissue damage and local irritation.. are givens..

a little factoid of interest.. these compounds benzyl, benzoic and benzoate are all synthetic ESTROGENs

MP

SteelPreacher · 02-13-2003, 06:34 PM

Do you have suitable alternatives?

and if they approach us..I..I..I bury those cockroaches! Put in your work!

IkeDani · 02-13-2003, 07:59 PM

so are you just supposed to use orals? Almost everything you inject uses BA for a solvent or for sterility.

archive_macrophage69alpha · 02-13-2003, 09:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by IkeDani:
so are you just supposed to use orals? Almost everything you inject uses BA for a solvent or for sterility.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and almost all of them use far more than is necessary.. excessively more.. to the point that the irritation can cause infection, even necrosis.

btw- of interesting note with the release of the high BA oeffler tests some time ago.. a number of users reported almost immeadiate gyno..

one wonders how much gyno is actually a results (at least partial) of high BA???

MP

hitmeoff · 02-14-2003, 01:20 AM

Lesson to be learned?

Stay away from ** products!!!!!

I personally dont find Euro or my own homebrews to be painful or irratative at all.

archive_macrophage69alpha · 02-14-2003, 02:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by macrophage69alpha:
the tissue damage and local irritation.. are givens..

a little factoid of interest.. these compounds benzyl, benzoic and benzoate are all synthetic ESTROGENs

MP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

have been looking into this further.. there seems to be dispute over direct estrogenic activity.. there is definitely upregulation of aromatase.. so E increases either way.. though.. perhaps not through direct agonism???

though really besides the point.. issue here is the excessive use by low end/first run and some compounders (both legit and black market)

MP

Q · 02-14-2003, 07:09 AM

If BA is a estrogen that does not activate the receptor but does bind to it, Then in theory wouldn't BA have an antiestrogen affect just as Nolvadex, clomid and cyclofenil? Or am I missing something?

Q

SteelPreacher · 02-15-2003, 08:29 AM

So just avoid high BA content oils, Correct?
Jimm~ are u serious bro?

...and if they approach us I bury those cockroaches!
Put in your work, know your history and put that girl on staff!

DaMan · 02-15-2003, 10:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Q:
If BA is a estrogen that does not activate the receptor but does bind to it, Then in theory wouldn't BA have an antiestrogen affect just as Nolvadex, clomid and cyclofenil? Or am I missing something?

Q<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well he said it increases aromatase and therefore endogenous estrogen, and endo E2 DOES activate the estrogen receptor...

Q · 02-15-2003, 02:52 PM

Daman,

Not sure how adding an estrogen to the system would/could increase aromitase (can someone explain this?) and yes E2 does activate the estogen receptor but we are not talking about E2 we are talking about benzyl Alc.

Q

DaMan · 02-15-2003, 03:33 PM

OK then the question is how benzyl raises aromatase since it's obvious what the result of increased aromatase is... macro?

Dragon · 02-17-2003, 05:16 PM

Benzoic acid is an estrogen?? WTF What am I missing here. Benzoic acid, is nothing more than a bezene ring (or phenyl group) attatched to a carboxylic acid.

Why are you calling iit a synthetic estrogen???

archive_macrophage69alpha · 02-17-2003, 05:37 PM

a list of SOME of the Xenoestrogens

Pesticides (DDT, DDE, 2,4,T, Dioxin, Dieldrin, endosulfan, methoxychlor, kepone, toxaphene, chloropicrin etc)

Petroleum products (car fumes, methlybenzene, toluene, benzene, styrene, pyrene)

Plastics (PVC, PCB's biphenyl, nonylphenyl, octaphenyl)

MP

archive_macrophage69alpha · 02-17-2003, 05:40 PM

btw- the current line of thinking with respects to benzyl, benzoic etc.. is that they themselves have little estrogenic activity but that they "estrogenic quality" observeed with exposrue is due to upregulation of aromatase (seen with many alcohols and alcohol derivatives)

MP

02-17-2003, 09:25 PM

Using an anti-aromatase is also associated with an upregulation of aromatase. If someone was using a testo made at a USA pharmacy that was high in BA - should they use an anti-aromatase like arimidex or something like nolvadex which would block estrogen receptors but not upregulate aromatase even more (I think tamoxifen does not upregulate estro receptors at least).....???????

And if they use an anti-aromatase should it be a suicidal/irreversible one or Arimidex?

Dragon · 02-18-2003, 01:23 PM

Can you post some links to literature supporting this theory?

I can find nothing supporting anything stating benzoic acid or Benzyl alcohol has any effect at all on aromatase enzymes.

[This message was edited by Dragon on 02-18-2003 at 03:32 PM.]

02-13-2003, 04:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
archive_macrophage69alpha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,101 Rep Power: 7020	ANOTHER reason benzyl is BAD the tissue damage and local irritation.. are givens.. a little factoid of interest.. these compounds benzyl, benzoic and benzoate are all synthetic ESTROGENs MP __________________ MP

02-13-2003, 06:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
SteelPreacher Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,091 Rep Power: 5936	Do you have suitable alternatives? and if they approach us..I..I..I bury those cockroaches! Put in your work! __________________ I can make you a celebrity overnight. Winners see problems as just another way to prove themselves! D.T.

02-13-2003, 09:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
archive_macrophage69alpha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,101 Rep Power: 7020	<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IkeDani: so are you just supposed to use orals? Almost everything you inject uses BA for a solvent or for sterility.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> and almost all of them use far more than is necessary.. excessively more.. to the point that the irritation can cause infection, even necrosis. btw- of interesting note with the release of the high BA oeffler tests some time ago.. a number of users reported almost immeadiate gyno.. one wonders how much gyno is actually a results (at least partial) of high BA??? MP __________________ MP

02-14-2003, 02:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
archive_macrophage69alpha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,101 Rep Power: 7020	<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by macrophage69alpha: the tissue damage and local irritation.. are givens.. a little factoid of interest.. these compounds benzyl, benzoic and benzoate are all synthetic ESTROGENs MP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> have been looking into this further.. there seems to be dispute over direct estrogenic activity.. there is definitely upregulation of aromatase.. so E increases either way.. though.. perhaps not through direct agonism??? though really besides the point.. issue here is the excessive use by low end/first run and some compounders (both legit and black market) MP __________________ MP

02-14-2003, 07:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
Q Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 333 Rep Power: 5196	If BA is a estrogen that does not activate the receptor but does bind to it, Then in theory wouldn't BA have an antiestrogen affect just as Nolvadex, clomid and cyclofenil? Or am I missing something? Q __________________ Q

02-13-2003, 07:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
IkeDani Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 5083	so are you just supposed to use orals? Almost everything you inject uses BA for a solvent or for sterility.

02-14-2003, 01:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
hitmeoff Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 39 Rep Power: 4564	Lesson to be learned? Stay away from ** products!!!!! I personally dont find Euro or my own homebrews to be painful or irratative at all.

02-15-2003, 08:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
SteelPreacher Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,091 Rep Power: 5936	So just avoid high BA content oils, Correct? Jimm~ are u serious bro? ...and if they approach us I bury those cockroaches! Put in your work, know your history and put that girl on staff! __________________ I can make you a celebrity overnight. Winners see problems as just another way to prove themselves! D.T.

02-15-2003, 10:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
DaMan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 735 Rep Power: 6156	<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Q: If BA is a estrogen that does not activate the receptor but does bind to it, Then in theory wouldn't BA have an antiestrogen affect just as Nolvadex, clomid and cyclofenil? Or am I missing something? Q<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well he said it increases aromatase and therefore endogenous estrogen, and endo E2 DOES activate the estrogen receptor...

02-15-2003, 02:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
Q Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 333 Rep Power: 5196	Daman, Not sure how adding an estrogen to the system would/could increase aromitase (can someone explain this?) and yes E2 does activate the estogen receptor but we are not talking about E2 we are talking about benzyl Alc. Q __________________ Q

02-15-2003, 03:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
DaMan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 735 Rep Power: 6156	OK then the question is how benzyl raises aromatase since it's obvious what the result of increased aromatase is... macro?

02-17-2003, 05:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 857 Rep Power: 6688	Benzoic acid is an estrogen?? WTF What am I missing here. Benzoic acid, is nothing more than a bezene ring (or phenyl group) attatched to a carboxylic acid. Why are you calling iit a synthetic estrogen??? __________________

02-17-2003, 05:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
archive_macrophage69alpha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,101 Rep Power: 7020	a list of SOME of the Xenoestrogens Pesticides (DDT, DDE, 2,4,T, Dioxin, Dieldrin, endosulfan, methoxychlor, kepone, toxaphene, chloropicrin etc) Petroleum products (car fumes, methlybenzene, toluene, benzene, styrene, pyrene) Plastics (PVC, PCB's biphenyl, nonylphenyl, octaphenyl) MP __________________ MP

02-17-2003, 05:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
archive_macrophage69alpha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,101 Rep Power: 7020	btw- the current line of thinking with respects to benzyl, benzoic etc.. is that they themselves have little estrogenic activity but that they "estrogenic quality" observeed with exposrue is due to upregulation of aromatase (seen with many alcohols and alcohol derivatives) MP __________________ MP

02-17-2003, 09:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	Using an anti-aromatase is also associated with an upregulation of aromatase. If someone was using a testo made at a USA pharmacy that was high in BA - should they use an anti-aromatase like arimidex or something like nolvadex which would block estrogen receptors but not upregulate aromatase even more (I think tamoxifen does not upregulate estro receptors at least).....??????? And if they use an anti-aromatase should it be a suicidal/irreversible one or Arimidex?

02-18-2003, 01:23 PM	#16 (permalink)
Dragon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 857 Rep Power: 6688	Can you post some links to literature supporting this theory? I can find nothing supporting anything stating benzoic acid or Benzyl alcohol has any effect at all on aromatase enzymes. [This message was edited by Dragon on 02-18-2003 at 03:32 PM.] __________________

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