Here is one for the liberals!

[NWMUSCLE]

What in the hell are we doing with ROE's and The Geneva Convention?

Severed fingers of 5 hostages delivered to U.S. officials in Iraq - Yahoo! News

[solidspine]

Rat Bastards

[ILIEKFUDE]

Originally Posted by NWMUSCLE

What in the hell are we doing with ROE's and The Geneva Convention?

Severed fingers of 5 hostages delivered to U.S. officials in Iraq - Yahoo! News

At the end of the day its the right way to do it imo. Horrible price to pay but we are on a whole nother level then those sonsabitches.
This isnt a liberal vs. right issue either imo. Im sure as many rights would agree with not stooping down to their level.
Its not an open war of army vs army on a field of battle. Its a game of hide n seek with the enemy wearing civilian clothes and suicide vests ducking into houses and playing "average joe" when persued... instead of artillery, armor and formations of infantry attempting to out maneuver one another.
What would yr alternative be bud? Nuke the country? We both know we cant do that. Whether we should be there or not, the fact is we are n we gotta fight it the right way.
Appearances and perceptions of the responsibility of our actions by other countries watching our doctrine in this war are as important as our success if not moreso in my opinion.
Simply sticking thru it until its done once committed and putting innocent human lives at times ahead of our own will reap mad props and credibility among our allies and peers in nato and abroad in future conflicts.

[NWMUSCLE]

Originally Posted by ILIEKFUDE

At the end of the day its the right way to do it imo. Horrible price to pay but we are on a whole nother level then those sonsabitches.
This isnt a liberal vs. right issue either imo. Im sure as many rights would agree with not stooping down to their level.
Its not an open war of army vs army on a field of battle. Its a game of hide n seek with the enemy wearing civilian clothes and suicide vests ducking into houses and playing "average joe" when persued... instead of artillery, armor and formations of infantry attempting to out maneuver one another.
What would yr alternative be bud? Nuke the country? We both know we cant do that. Whether we should be there or not, the fact is we are n we gotta fight it the right way.
Appearances and perceptions of the responsibility of our actions by other countries watching our doctrine in this war are as important as our success if not moreso in my opinion.
Simply sticking thru it until its done once committed and putting innocent human lives at times ahead of our own will reap mad props and credibility among our allies and peers in nato and abroad in future conflicts.

My point being we as Soldiers are held accountable to the Rules of Engagement as well as the Geneva Convention and these bastards have no rules whatsoever to follow.
The taxpayers spend as much as 2 million dollars training some SF operators over the course of their careers and still do not trust them to make the decision of who is friend and who is foe.
Our hands are tied with the potential of being tried for murder if we get the "wrong guy", and the liberal media seems to eat up all the shit that Al Jazeera
can send them and rebroadcast it all over the world.
I had close personal friends that died from not doing what every Soldier is trained to do for fear of being prosecuted if the decision was incorrect.
11 guys in a 24 hour period killed by the Taliban, because a position was compromised by locals that proceeded to bring the Taliban running as soon as they were set free.

The guy on the ground should call the shots, not some fruitcake politicians that have their male pages under their desks half the day.
How the fuck do you try a guy for murder during a war that has no front lines, nor the ability to distinguish from any distance who the enemy is?

[strawberryriddick]

Originally Posted by NWMUSCLE

My point being we as Soldiers are held accountable to the Rules of Engagement as well as the Geneva Convention and these bastards have no rules whatsoever to follow.

That's part of the problem. ILIEKFUDE said that this was the right way to deal with it. I'm not going to say whether it should be considered "right" or "wrong" to torture people or cut off their limbs for whatever reason, but I will say that there's a certain way that the Iraqis are used to doing business, and if it's what they listen to, it's not crazy to suggest that we start doing the same. I have an MP (Military Police) buddy in the Army. He gets stationed at Iraqi Police stations to help them transition from Iraq's way to our way. He says he has to constantly remind the **'s that they can't beat prisoners when they interrogate them.

While getting them to fight a kindler, gentler war would be good, they won't do it. If I'm an Iraqi POW and I'm expecting to have my head cut off, but instead I'm being taken care of, what incentive do I have to rat out my buddies? Hell, I'm livin' the life.

[TheSuaveOne]

Sorry, I'm no liberal, but I don't see there being a need for us to drop to that level. There is a reason we are fighting them, and it's not so we can become like them.

[StFu]

Originally Posted by TheSuaveOne

Sorry, I'm no liberal, but I don't see there being a need for us to drop to that level. There is a reason we are fighting them, and it's not so we can become like them.

I have to disagree...... Say you are in China or any foreign country with a different language for that matter and want to communicate your opinion and view. Lets say they refuse to communicate in what is considered a widely recognized and accepted language. If you want to communicate with them then you better learn that language. Adapt and overcome.......... Yes it is barbaric to us but not to them.

Our armed forces gets paid to do a job and they risk life and limb every day to protect our freedom as well as those in Iraq and elsewhere in the world. Any true red blooded American in our services would have to agree..... the shit policies of our politicians and Geneva do not apply/work there. If it gets order restored faster and our troops home sooner then dammit do it.

[DrewDog]

Originally Posted by StFu

I have to disagree...... Say you are in China or any foreign country with a different language for that matter and want to communicate your opinion and view. Lets say they refuse to communicate in what is considered a widely recognized and accepted language. If you want to communicate with them then you better learn that language. Adapt and overcome.......... Yes it is barbaric to us but not to them.

apples and oranges. you can't compare attempts to communicate with acts of barbarous violence.

sinking to their level won't scare them, it will embolden then. remember, these are people who are willing to blow themselves up for what they believe in. Doing this kind of stuff to them won't change that. Showing that you are no better then them might actually help them with their recruitment

[bluetwistedsteel]

All of these arguments are interesting to discuss but the fact is you fight to win. It's a freaking war, not a game of Yatzee! If you need to beat on a guy to get critical information then I say do it. It beats the hell out of saying we know he's got information but it's against the rules to make him talk. We lose these wars because we have a weak stomach. What we did to Japan to end WW II was way more inhumane than putting a guy on a board and torturing by making him think he's drowning. We hit Japan with our full force and they cried uncle - today we have a close and important alliance with Japan. The advesary needs to know that we will win at any cost even if that means fighting dirty. We're not going to gain anybody's respect by fighting with one hand tied behind our backs. Torture, humiliation, killing, being ruthless are all parts of war. We've gotten soft and because of that nobody fears us.

[solidspine]

We lose these wars because we have a weak stomach

No our politicians would rather be re-elected then do the right thing,


It is called Political Correctness.

[solidspine]

Remember liberals are only liberals because we pay their salaries,


All of them think about, make a list, I can Start it

Union Members- Government monopoly
Teachers-taxes
Government people, I would use the word employees but employees in private institutions work Government people collect checks that we pay with our taxes.
Postal workers- Government monopoly and Taxes
University people, again not employees,- you know like tenure, -Taxes

It is incomplete as a list but is about 40 percent of the US, with the poor people on welfare, who knows, a few of us are paying for the majority who do nothing, free loaders. And the people who are the least offensive are those on welfare or illegal aliens, I don’t mind helping some one that needs help.

[big4life]

As a liberal my idea would be we hunt down the people resposible for this and kill them. Notice I said the people responsible for this. We don't lower ourselves to their level. If this is about killing innocents to make people afraid of us, then we have already lost this war.