If you're taking science in Oklahoma, the correct answer is: "God made it that way."

[DrewDog]

The Edmond Sun, Edmond, OK - Bill promotes school religion at expense of education

The bill requires public schools to guarantee students the right to express their religious viewpoints in a public forum, in class, in homework and in other ways without being penalized. If a student’s religious beliefs were in conflict with scientific theory, and the student chose to express those beliefs rather than explain the theory in response to an exam question, the student’s incorrect response would be deemed satisfactory, according to this bill.

I'm all for freedom of religion, but this is ridiculous.

Whether or not a student's religious beliefs gel with what they are being taught in class, if they can't answer the question based on what they are taught, then they are wrong,

Not too mention, this makes an easy out for all the lazy and stupid students in the class.

[midlifecrisis]

I see nothing ridiculous about it. Its simply the shoe being put on the other foot. The problem is that we as a society cant agree on what the truth is or what should be taught to our children. So who is to say if the students answer is right or wrong? All this is is the anti-religion, creation arguement coming full circle where today you have the religous contingent voicing thier beleifs and demanding fair treatment, just as the anti-religous evolution crowd did. Its just equal time is all.

.

[Bjaarki]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I see nothing ridiculous about it. Its simply the shoe being put on the other foot. The problem is that we as a society cant agree on what the truth is or what should be taught to our children. So who is to say if the students answer is right or wrong? All this is is the anti-religion, creation arguement coming full circle where today you have the religous contingent voicing thier beleifs and demanding fair treatment, just as the anti-religous evolution crowd did. Its just equal time is all.

.

MidLife, are they putting something in the water down there? You seem to have lost about 35 points off your IQ, the past month or so.

This is not about "religion vs. anti-religion." I'm a scientist. Most of my friends are scientists. I practice a religion, as do many of them. But even those who don't are hardly "anti-religious."

It's not "religion vs. anti-religion", it's objective, testable, falsifiable observation vs. folktales and superstition. It's really no more complicated than that.

But you go ahead and support whatever foolishness appeals to you. Just don't count on the taxpayers to pay for remedial classes for your son to bring him out of the 12th century when he gets to Georgia State, okay?

<<< Christalmighty !!! You would think that some things are just so damned obvious they needn't be said, wouldn't you? But not in Jesusland !!! >>>

[Blut Wump]

Q. How many minutes does it take for a satellite to circumvent the Earth traveling always in a Westerly direction?

A. It's not possible since the Earth is believed to be flat. If the satellite continued in a Westerly direction, it would eventually be eaten by the Great Hippo.

[DrewDog]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I see nothing ridiculous about it. Its simply the shoe being put on the other foot. The problem is that we as a society cant agree on what the truth is or what should be taught to our children. So who is to say if the students answer is right or wrong? All this is is the anti-religion, creation arguement coming full circle where today you have the religous contingent voicing thier beleifs and demanding fair treatment, just as the anti-religous evolution crowd did. Its just equal time is all.

.

if its a "science" class, then science says the student is wrong. beliefs aside, that is not what is taught in that specific class, so its the wrong answer.

if they want "god created the earth 10,000 years ago" to be the correct answer, then have the school board offer religion based science class that students can take on top of or instead of a pure science class.

even if you want to take the religion aspect out of this, there is still the problem that it would skew schooling results because it would allow the lazy/slow kids to answer "god said so"

[Blut Wump]

There's a balance to be had, though. We don't 'know', for example, that we evolved from single-celled creatures. It's as valid for a student to state that theology teaches we came from the Garden of Eden as it is to state that science teaches that we each evolved from slime. There are some things still classed as 'not known'.

This could be resolved by phrasing the questions appropriately. For example, "According to current scientific teaching, did we evolve or were we created?". Take religious belief out of the question.

[midlifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Bjaarki

MidLife, are they putting something in the water down there? You seem to have lost about 35 points off your IQ, the past month or so.

This is not about "religion vs. anti-religion." I'm a scientist. Most of my friends are scientists. I practice a religion, as do many of them. But even those who don't are hardly "anti-religious."

It's not "religion vs. anti-religion", it's objective, testable, falsifiable observation vs. folktales and superstition. It's really no more complicated than that.

But you go ahead and support whatever foolishness appeals to you. Just don't count on the taxpayers to pay for remedial classes for your son to bring him out of the 12th century when he gets to Georgia State, okay?

<<< Christalmighty !!! You would think that some things are just so damned obvious they needn't be said, wouldn't you? But not in Jesusland !!! >>>

I dont exactly ever hear you bragging on your boys on the forum B, and Im guessing there is a reason for that, huh proffessor? Maybe if your boys had had Jesus they wouldnt have missed having you around so much.

[DrewDog]

Originally Posted by Blut Wump

There's a balance to be had, though. We don't 'know', for example, that we evolved from single-celled creatures. It's as valid for a student to state that theology teaches we came from the Garden of Eden as it is to state that science teaches that we each evolved from slime. There are some things still classed as 'not known'.

This could be resolved by phrasing the questions appropriately. For example, "According to current scientific teaching, did we evolve or were we created?". Take religious belief out of the question.

very good point. whole heartedly agree

[midlifecrisis]

I say simply take the entire subject out of the curriculum. I dont recall having to answer questions or being told how the earth was created or how mankind came to be when I was in school. The problem is that today liberal professors and weenie "scientists" like Bjaarki are insisting that they know things that no person can possibly know, and want to force thier opinions on others. And where better to propogate these opinions than in public school on 8 year olds. I say leave it out of the curriculum until post secondary education. Hell, we are graduating kids who cant fucking read and write, why is it so fucking important to focus on theory of evolution and creation? For gods sake, most of these pot smoking hippie teachers cant teach thier kids to spell evolution, much less understand it.

[Bjaarki]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I say simply take the entire subject out of the curriculum. I dont recall having to answer questions or being told how the earth was created or how mankind came to be when I was in school. The problem is that today liberal professors and weenie "scientists" like Bjaarki are insisting that they know things that no person can possibly know, and want to force thier opinions on others. And where better to propogate these opinions than in public school on 8 year olds. I say leave it out of the curriculum until post secondary education. Hell, we are graduating kids who cant fucking read and write, why is it so fucking important to focus on theory of evolution and creation? For gods sake, most of these pot smoking hippie teachers cant teach thier kids to spell evolution, much less understand it.

Leave WHAT out of the curriculum, MidLife? SCIENCE ??? Our kids are getting their asses kicked in science and math every day by German kids and Japanese kids and Chinese kids ... and you want 'em to not study science ... because it steps on the toes of some fundamentalist bigot??? Fuck that !!! Not with my tax dollars you don't !!! You want a science class where a right answer is saying the world was created 5,000+ years ago? Then you take your ass over to the christian academy and you enroll your kid there Not in the public schools that I'm paying for, you don't. I don't pay to give kids a 12th century education. Though it makes sense, now, to think that that's what you had when you were a kid .....

	ASS Nelson Montana

[LanT]

Originally Posted by Blut Wump

There's a balance to be had, though. We don't 'know', for example, that we evolved from single-celled creatures. It's as valid for a student to state that theology teaches we came from the Garden of Eden as it is to state that science teaches that we each evolved from slime. There are some things still classed as 'not known'.

This could be resolved by phrasing the questions appropriately. For example, "According to current scientific teaching, did we evolve or were we created?". Take religious belief out of the question.

I agree as well. I think you made a really good point Blut. I want my children to be well versed in both science and religion and to form their own opinions as they grow older. I don't want them to learn absolutes. Personally, I lean toward science but that doesn't take anything away form my strong religious beliefs. For what it's worth, my faith has helped me get through much more than science ever could.

[midlifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Bjaarki

Our kids are getting their asses kicked in science and math every day by German kids and Japanese kids and Chinese kids .......

Education is one of the things the democrats have had full control and influence over throughout modern history. You have done a horrific job with it and now its time to hand it over to those who know how to run an enterprise and produce a quality product.....an educated, globally competetive student.

[Ulter]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

Education is one of the things the democrats have had full control and influence over throughout modern history. You have done a horrific job with it and now its time to hand it over to those who know how to run an enterprise and produce a quality product.....an educated, globally competetive student.

Most of the problem there is Republicans doing things like implementing No Child Left Behind and then not funding it. In Florida the Republican's are mandating a 23 student maximum class size. But guess what? They are funding the extra teachers needed to do it. Great solution to overcrowded schools. Just make the classes smaller.

The problem now with education is that the money that should go toward new schools and teachers is being spent on new schools and teachers in Iraq.

[midlifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Ulter

Most of the problem there is Republicans doing things like implementing No Child Left Behind and then not funding it. In Florida the Republican's are mandating a 23 student maximum class size. But guess what? They are funding the extra teachers needed to do it. Great solution to overcrowded schools. Just make the classes smaller.

The problem now with education is that the money that should go toward new schools and teachers is being spent on new schools and teachers in Iraq.

I dont doubt that we could put some of the money going to Iraq to good use on public education here in America. Im sure there are at least a few teachers union officials that dont have a home in the Hamptoms yet. The problem with your comments are two fold. Prior to NCLB and the Iraq war, public education was a dismal failure based on most metrics, so its hard to lay the blame there. Secondly, funding public education has never really been the problem. Its one of those problems that the more money you throw at it, the more inefficiient it seems to get. Public education system is the purest form of government bureaucracy, waste, entitlement and mismanagement. We live in a country where our prison systems are run more efficiently and successfully than our school systems. And its no coincidence that we pay prison officials and administrators better than teachers and school admins. Tenure needs to be abolished. Good teachers need to paid more. Bad teachers need to be fired. Unions are keeping any of that from happening. And kids suffer for it.

[Bjaarki]

Where did you get all that, MidLife? Many years of observation in academia, or Rush Limbaugh?

It's really hilarious that you make such grand pronouncements on education policy. You speak authoritatively about many things - education, the use of the military, the use of lethal force against illegals accused of committing crime - that you don't know anything about.

If you ever utter a single original thought, one that hasn't been hashed and rehashed a million times by The Noise Machine, I will buy you a 50cc jug of test enanthate.

And why do you think it odd that I don't brag up my kids here? They're great kids, but I don't brag 'em up a lot to strangers.

Bjaarki