@%$#! flat bench

[afroman]

OK, I surrender. I hurt my left shoulder flat benching (barbell). I took six weeks off of the bench, then two weeks later, hurt my right shoulder. I took three weeks off, and felt my right shoulder "pop" again right in the exact same spot. So, I know I tore something again, not a total tear, but I'm betting a pretty decent one. So, I'm going to avoid flat bench for another six weeks. Can I do inclines, and declines if I use light weight during that time? I just hate to lose everything I've gained. After the six weeks, I'm going to stick to dumbells for a while. I'm so f'ing confused, it never happens when I max, always on the lighter weights as I build up.

[Blut Wump]

Do you build up the weights quickly? Once I pass about 200, I don't like to add more than about 45 pounds on any increment and typically prefer jumps of around 30 or less.

Do you warm and limber up? I always begin with just the bar for ten reps and then add 20Kg for another set of ten. It allows me to feel for any kinks or tightness before I'm under any significant load.

[Ulter]

I gave up years ago. Had both shoulder scoped twice in 5 years and final gave up. Now I have arthritis in the left shoulder. Stick to DB's.

[richd328]

When I had my shoulder injury, i tried inclines, hurt like a mofu, serious pain. Be careful and good luck with it.

[afroman]

I do just that. I even added a set of 225 in at the beginning to try and get more warmed up. I add 40 LBs per set working towards a max. It hits me at the same time lately, right at the 345 mark. Today I did a set of 70s on the dumbell and tried to really stretch. I did stretching in between sets. Then I did 135 on the flat bench for 15, and did that twice. Then I did 225 for 12. Went to 265 for 5. 305 for 4. Then at 345 for 3, and I felt the pop on the third rep. That was it. I skipped the rest of the chest and did arms.

[afroman]

I gave up years ago. Had both shoulder scoped twice in 5 years and final gave up. Now I have arthritis in the left shoulder. Stick to DB's.

So if I give up barbell completely, can I go heavy on dumbell? What is it about barbell as opposed to dumbell that fucks your chest up so bad. I just don't get it, I never used to have these problems, and it is NEVER at the max, always on the way up to it. I'm pissed. I've been at the same weight for four months now because of this SHIT!.

[mnk]

Afroman do me a favor (we put up the same weight so this may help). Can you tell me how you line your elbows for example do you have them flared out almost like 90 degree wide grip while doing flat bench and how far out do you grip? I just scoped my shoulder and was given advice by my ortho surgeon and others (Jon@ Bodygoals) that may help.....

[afroman]

Afroman do me a favor (we put up the same weight so this may help). Can you tell me how you line your elbows for example do you have them flared out almost like 90 degree wide grip while doing flat bench and how far out do you grip? I just scoped my shoulder and was given advice by my ortho surgeon and others (Jon@ Bodygoals) that may help.....

I used to flare my elbows out at 90 degrees, but I try now to bring them in tighter to my body. I thought I read somewhere years ago that having them flared out wide put more stress on your shoulder joint. I used to have my index finger on the ring, now I have my third finger (Finger next to the pinkie) on the ring, so my hands are bout two inches tighter on each side.

[mnk]

The info you rec'd is absolutely right. I was doing heavy lift (atleast heavy for me, 365, 385) and felt the wider the grip and the more flared my elbows were the more I would isolate my chest..........sooooo wrong and an Injury to prove it(torn rotator cuff) . Elbows as you said should be be more tucked in (even just doing that motion with no weight you can feel it more on your chest than the elbows flared out). This will take the undue stress off your shoulders and hit your intended target muscle....the chest. Just thought I'd share the advice that was given to me! Good luck with your shoulder AM.

[Blut Wump]

Give this a read, well worth the time:
http://www.afboard.com/forum/fitness-training/showthread.php?t=106

[mnk]

Blut good post....nice to have a reinforced opinion about the flared elbows and the stress it puts on the shoulders. Thank you!

[Killer]

Yup. Having the elbows flared def puts the old stress on the anterior joint of the shoulder.

Afroman - many people find DBs more comfortable because they do not lock your joints into a fixed position like a bar does.

If you did not turn black and blue, have severe pain, or see any deformity, I would not worry to much about seeing an ortho.

Well, it all depends on the severity of the pull (tear). Since 3 weeks was not enough, I would double it. No, you should do nothing for the chest during that time as far as exercise. You might be able to get away with some light shoulder work (no presses) but chances are you will do something stupid and irritate your chest. After the first 72 hours to 4-5 days you could start some heat and some GENTLE stretching if it is pain free. You could also start to get some deep tissue/myofascial massage once the area calms down some. Be smart - or you will just irritate it or hurt it again and be spinning your wheels.

[afroman]

And just to be clear, when I say shoulder, I mean shoulder area. The pain is always where my chest and shoulder come together. I have no muscle bunching, and the pain is not severe. Do I need to see a doc, and how long until I can do minimal chest work?

[mnk]

Thats where I had my pain front shoulder area by the chest....it was that excess strain I put on it. My pain would come and go for several months. Finally it was too much. I had an MRI with dye contrast done and it revealed 3cm tear. Give it a rest, see how you feel /recover....

[afroman]

Thats where I had my pain front shoulder area by the chest....it was that excess strain I put on it. My pain would come and go for several months. Finally it was too much. I had an MRI with dye contrast done and it revealed 3cm tear. Give it a rest, see how you feel /recover....


Mnk, how long did you rest it? Did you do no chest work, or just eliminate flat bench?

[afroman]

Be smart - or you will just irritate it or hurt it again and be spinning your wheels.

Wise words. I feel like I've been doing stupid shit and spinning my wheels for the last six weeks. :werd:

[mnk]

Give it a 2 week rest from direct work....and then start up with light Dumbell work and see how it feels. If it was some type of muscle strain you should be OK......if its worse like a tear you will (in a very short period of time) have the pain come back. then you need to get an MRI to see the extent. Xrays are not good for tears.

[afroman]

OK. So on my right shoulder, right where the crease of your armpit is, about an inch to the left (towards my chest) I can feel about a one inch long, maybe quarter inch wide gap where the pain is. I can actually feel the dip in the muscle there. What would necessitate a repair? I mean, if that is a tear, is that something that will heal (and heal correctly) with time, or does something that long require surgery to repair correctly?

[IliekFude]

see a doc, get an mri.

[C. Smith]

see a doc, get an mri.


+1

[Cyp]

Dumb bells only for me know. Too many shoulder and rotator cuff injuries. It always seems to happen when you get to your magic goal number. Also tore my pec, which was bitch. Love the dumb bells and some fierce push ups to end the work out.

[Killer]

Afroman - do what the others said and go see an orthopedist asap.

If it is torn at the tendon bone junction, they may re-attach it.

If it is torn along the muscle to tendon junction, then there is not much they can do. It is like trying to tie wet spaghetti together.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

[Sue Me]

Dude that sucks! +1 on the doctor visit - you gotta figure out what's really going on with it now...Better to find out sooner than later. Good luck and update us.

[afroman]

see a doc, get an mri.

Wise words. I'm so sick of doctors right now. I just went through getting an MRI on my left shoulder three weeks or four weeks ago. They said I have arthritis. I do have an appointment with an ortho doctor first thing tomorrow. Like I said above, I can feel whatever I did.

Now I'm going to rant. In October, I got up to 425 on the bench, no pain no nothing. Then in around December I got this weird twinge in my left shoulder. Same as this time, not on the max, on my way stepping up. Took a couple weeks off, and got it worse when I came back. Took about six weeks off, and came back pretty strong. No problems in the left shoulder at all. Then BAM this bullshit on the right shoulder. So basically, I have been stalled now for almost four months. I could accept this more easily if I hurt it maxing out, but it is always on the lighter sets. Why the F is that? If I were on Clomid, I'd feel like crying. I promise to the Iron Gods, just heal me correctly and I will take better care of my shoulders. I'll use dumbells more often and do less flat pressing motions. I'll max less often. I'm 41 and just want a few more years of pushing heavy iron. Then I'll move on to lighter weight and more reps. I promise. That's all I ask.

In all seriousness, I love this board and appreciate all who have responded, and even those who didn't. This place really is something special. Sniff sniiff.

[afroman]

Afroman - do what the others said and go see an orthopedist asap.

If it is torn at the tendon bone junction, they may re-attach it.

If it is torn along the muscle to tendon junction, then there is not much they can do. It is like trying to tie wet spaghetti together.



So what does that mean exactly? If it is that type of tear, I'm done or at least severely limited? Boy would that suck.

[afroman]

So, I went to the ortho doctor on Wednesday. He had me take my shirt off and hold my arms out to my sides. He felt my shoulder. He said he was going to send me for an x-ray, because if my tendon had popped loose, it could have a little piece of bone stuck on it, and he would be able to see that. When the x-ray came back, he told me he did not see that, and that he thought I just pulled a muscle. He told me to take anywhere from two to six weeks off from the bench, and to come back and see him if I had anymore problems. So did Dr. Fucktard give me the big blow off, or could he have made that diagnosis based on the information? I'm really hoping he's right. A pulled muscle would be the best of all worlds, no severe injury, and probably the quickest recovery. On the other hand, when I felt the pop, I felt a gap in my shoulder/chest area where the pain was that IS NOT on the corresponding area of the left shoulder. I have no blood or bruising in the area. I just don't know. Any input from the gurus out there?

[IliekFude]

well i think obviously since its been ongoing for months and months and so on.. that it needs more than an x-ray. did you see a sports related physician who can properly diagnose a sports related injury or just an ortho outta the phone book?
does yr insurance not cover an mri or something? im trying to understand why you havent gotten one done yet but keep asking what we think is wrong?

[LanT]

I went to the doc 2 times in three years with no solution for a similar problem. Finally asked for and got an MRI. I had a subacromial decompression done mid December and I'm back at 100% today (except incline bench which still hurts). You need an MRI and you may need to just flat out tell him you want one done. I waited too long and endured a lot of needles pain. Wish I had asked sooner. GL

[afroman]

well i think obviously since its been ongoing for months and months and so on.. that it needs more than an x-ray. did you see a sports related physician who can properly diagnose a sports related injury or just an ortho outta the phone book?
does yr insurance not cover an mri or something? im trying to understand why you havent gotten one done yet but keep asking what we think is wrong?

Yes, my insurance covers an MRI if it is ordered by a doctor. I don't think any insurance allows you to walk in to a testing facility and say, "I'm here to have an MRI done." I went and saw a sports medicine docor. This hasn't been ongoing for months and months. The first occurance was on my left shoulder. I had an MRI done, and they said all they saw was arthritis. The right shoulder "Pop" happened last week, with some other pain happening a few weeks earlier. I guess I could have demanded he order an MRI, but I didn't. I guess I am trusting the expertise of the guy who went to school for 12 years to know what he is doing.

[afroman]

I went to the doc 2 times in three years with no solution for a similar problem. Finally asked for and got an MRI. I had a subacromial decompression done mid December and I'm back at 100% today (except incline bench which still hurts). You need an MRI and you may need to just flat out tell him you want one done. I waited too long and endured a lot of needles pain. Wish I had asked sooner. GL

Did you use the same doctor? This was a doctor I had never seen before. They are highly repsected sports medicine guys in my area, but this was my first dealings with them. Thanks for the input.

[IliekFude]

Yes, my insurance covers an MRI if it is ordered by a doctor. I don't think any insurance allows you to walk in to a testing facility and say, "I'm here to have an MRI done." I went and saw a sports medicine docor. This hasn't been ongoing for months and months. The first occurance was on my left shoulder. I had an MRI done, and they said all they saw was arthritis. The right shoulder "Pop" happened last week, with some other pain happening a few weeks earlier. I guess I could have demanded he order an MRI, but I didn't. I guess I am trusting the expertise of the guy who went to school for 12 years to know what he is doing.
hey its your shoulder chief..
but if yr trusting the dipshit who went to school for 12 years fueled by meth and skittles then why are you still posting here every day about the same problem over and over and giving me shit for answering you?
anyway you have a good one.


I hurt my left shoulder flat benching (barbell). I took six weeks off of the bench, then two weeks later, hurt my right shoulder. I took three weeks off, and felt my right shoulder "pop" again right in the exact same spot. So, I know I tore something again, not a total tear, but I'm betting a pretty decent one. So, I'm going to avoid flat bench for another six weeks
theres definitely enough weeks in there to equal some "months". i apologize if i offended you by equating those weeks to more months than i shouldve, sir.

[afroman]

hey its your shoulder chief..
but if yr trusting the dipshit who went to school for 12 years fueled by meth and skittles then why are you still posting here every day about the same problem over and over and giving me shit for answering you?
anyway you have a good one.


theres definitely enough weeks in there to equal some "months". i apologize if i offended you by equating those weeks to more months than i shouldve, sir.

Notice the words left and right in there. Two different shoulders, two completely different injuries. This entire post only had to do with what just happened to my right shoulder. The left shoulder is not even an issue anymore. I had an MRI done on that shoulder and the found nothing. This post was originally about how pissed I was about injuries with the flat bench, and why this might be happening. I meant no disrespect, I'm just one of those people programmed to trust what a doctor says. If a sports medicine doctor tells me that it's a pull, not a tear, I'm gonna believe him. It is probably a mistake on my part, and since it is my shoulder, I should probably go that extra mile.
As for posting again and again about the same problem, often those were posts in response to requests for an update, like Killer, or with a question about advice someone had given. Mostly I was just asking opinions on other posts.

[IliekFude]

Notice the words left and right in there "chief". Two different shoulders, two completely different injuries.

Right.. and you still have no clue what exactly they were..
Yr an oddball man, yr gettin all grumpy because people are telling you to get a difinitive answer on yr injury.
I hope ya get it fixed eventually but i really dunno why ya dont just go get an mri like everyone and their brother suggested.
Good luck.

**edit** well nevermind you re-edited yr entire post while i was typing this one. lol. if ya got an mri on the first one and that solved it then get one on this one. sounds like a no brainer. im bowing out.

Good luck man, dont get so defensive people r just trying to help ya.