deca VS durabolin which is better or more potent.

[papasung]

i was going to use deca 400mg a week for 6-8 weeks but one of my many sources told me he don't think deca is all that he said he thinks durabolin is better and more potent than the deca .If it is how much should i use on a 6 week cycle.

[tidefan00]

what are you kidding me? its all durabolin these days....forget deca

"I ain't nothin but a winner"
-Paul "Bear" Bryant

[Decaman]

It is simply faster acting. I dont know what crap your source is trying to tell you in regards to it being better- better at what? Nandrolone is nandrolone.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[Deja_Voodoo]

[quote]Originally posted by Decaman:
It is simply faster acting. I dont know what crap your source is trying to tell you in regards to it being better- better at what? Nandrolone is nandrolone.

http://216.85.237.147/dman/dman.jpg

DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

/QUOTE] Since its a shorter ester there should be more nandralone given MG amount (like enanthate compared to propionate) shouldn't there? And also it starts working faster so sometimes that's also taken into consideration when people are speaking of efficacy.
Other than that they are essentially the same.

Deja_Voodoo: Contributing to the decay of the moral fabric of america since 1971.
"A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is a man who hopes they are" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Swollen]

I bet the Durabolin he's trying to sell you is more expensive...

Big is impressive
Aesthetic is inspiring

[Decaman]

Without getting into specifics the end result would not be terribly different and as mentioned above I can almost gurantee this guy is charging an arm and a leg for it. Also consider the fact that it is not that common an item and more than likely this guy will have a 50 mg/ ml concentration of it or worse 25mg/ ml. I dont see how the speed of it will make a difference in this instance in relation to gains because nandrolone in any form is a slow even builder, thats simply how it works. If your going to use nandrolone stick with nandrolone decanoate.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[COASTAL]

DECA VS. DURABOLIN..... AT SAME MG/ML HOW WOULD YOU TAKE THE DURA VS. THE REGULAR DECA??
COASTAL

[archive_the truth]

Durabolin is the only nandrolone I'll take these days. I take 400 mg/ week in divided doses. IMO, recovery is much easier, as it is much faster acting.

[Cocktails]

Durabolin (Nandrolone phenylpropionate) must be injected every 2-3 days and should be used at a lower dose than Deca as it is only active for a few days VS Deca-Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) which remains active for a few weeks.
Durabolin, if available, would be the first choice as blood levels would be better maintained if injected every 3 days at a lower dose.
Side effects at high dose is the same with both.

[Decaman]

I dont know if we have any real life stories on the recovery aspect , but i would seem to make sense that recovery would be quicker. If anyone has done a cycle of durabolin let us know. I persoanlly used it only for 4 or 5 weeks and moved on to something else so i cant comment on the recovery. In the end i am still using nandrolone decanoate to build some mass.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[archive_ASTRAL FITNESS]

IF YOU HAVE WORRIES ABOUT TESTING AND RECOVERY AND DON'T MIND FREQUENT INJECTIONS DURABOLIN SHOULD BE THE CHOICE! sORRY FOR YELLING LIKE A CRAZY SON OF A BITCH [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Stay Hungry, Train Hard, Live Large!
Astral Fitness
http://pub25.ezboard.com/bastralfitness

[GymRatNYC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cocktails:
Durabolin (Nandrolone phenylpropionate) must be injected every 2-3 days and should be used at a lower dose than Deca as it is only active for a few days VS Deca-Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) which remains active for a few weeks.
Durabolin, if available, would be the first choice as blood levels would be better maintained if injected every 3 days at a lower dose.
Side effects at high dose is the same with both.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but phenylpropionate is NOT faster acting the way that propionate is... it's more on the level of a cypionate or enanthate, so weekly injections is sufficient.

[cockdezl]

Durabolin will be slightly stronger than Deca, for the fact that when comparing equal milligrams, Durabolin will release more drug into the system faster. Its faster release rate wlll provide higher blood levels of drug than Deca, but for shorter amounts of time. This will also require more frequent dosing than Deca.

[Cocktails]

If anyone cares to do the research, Durabolin DOES
release faster.
I quote Anabolics 2002 author Willaiml Lewellyn:
"While Deca provides the extremely slow release duration of up to three to four weeks, Durabolin is active for only a few days. In clinical situations Deca can thus be injected once every two to three weeks, while Durabolin is usually administered every few days."

[MisterX]

What is the significance of the partition coefficient?

Differences in partition coefficient seem to account almost fully for the differences between various esters of anabolic steroids, as shown by Chaudry and James.1,2 To understand their work, though, it is necessary first to consider the methods they used to obtain their data on the anabolic and androgenic effects of the drugs tested.

These scientists are not using those terms in the manner which many bodybuilding authors do. The anabolic effect is measured by increase in weight of the levator ani muscle in the rat, and the androgenic effect is measured by increase in weight of the seminal vesicles and prostate. These measurements are neither perfectly indicative of muscle-building value to bodybuilders nor to any particular undesired side effect except perhaps prostate enlargement. Despite the limitations of the method, this was the assay method available.

A number of esters of nandrolone were studied, using various single doses, but only the results from a single dose of 1 mg are given here. The results are as follows:

Parent Drug

Ester

# of Carbons

Anabolic Effect

Anabolic/Androgenic-Ratio--PRC**-(P)--x10-3

Nandrolone formate-1--1176--13:1--15*

acetate------------2--1594--11:1--25*

propionate---------3--1880--10:1--41*

butyrate-----------4--1488--7:1---69

valerate-----------5--2526--9:1---115*

hexanoate----------6--3731--9:1---192

heptanoate---------7--6559--13:1--269

octanoate----------8--5557--15:1--611

nonanoate----------9--5080--19:1--455

decanoate---------10--7735--25:1--802

undecanoate-------11--6576--32:1--1460

*extrapolated from P of the butyrate ester
** partition ratio coefficient

The anabolic effect was found to be predictable according to the equation:

log (anabolic effect) = 7.33 log P – 0.636 log P2 –17.8

The accuracy of predictions was quite high (r = 0.970) and the F value, indicating the statistical significance of the equation, was very high at 61. Thus, the observed anabolic effect of these ester prodrugs of nandrolone was found to be highly correlated with partition coefficient.

Higher partition coefficients were also strongly correlated with higher anabolic/androgenic ratio.

It was also found that the times of first and second peaks of drug level after injection were predictable from P with good accuracy and high significance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can the greatly higher anabolic effects of the long chain esters be explained?

While the authors do not make note of it in either article cited, there is a simple explanation for the observed result. Long chain esters of anabolic steroids are not many more times potent than short chain, if indeed they are any more potent at all. Yet in the above study, the undecanoate ester was found to give 3.5 times the effect of the propionate ester. Why?

There is a difference in pharmacokinetics (the time course of the drug in the body). Although the same 1 mg dose is being given in each case, it is either present in the serum of the animal at a relatively high concentration for a relatively short time for the shorter chain esters, or at lower concentration for a longer time for the longer chain esters. This difference can be quite large: the undecanoate ester can be predicted to have a half-life 36 times longer than that of the propionate ester.3

With most drugs, response is not proportional to the dose, but to the log of the dose. Assuming that the dose is well into the effective range, taking ¼ the dose does not result in only ¼ the result, but in ½ the result.

Viewed in this light, if the nandrolone propionate had been given in 36 divided doses over the same length of time that nandrolone undecanoate was in the system, in a manner to match its pharmacokinetics, one would expect 1/6 the result from each individual dose before accounting for molecular weight differences. The cumulative response would be 36 times 1/6, or six times the observed result from the single large dose. If we then correct for the lower molecular weight of the propionate ester, which delivers more nandrolone per mg. than does the undecanoate ester, we would predict 3.3 times more response than from the single large dose. In fact the observed response of the undecanoate ester was 3.5 times that of the propionate ester. This difference is within experimental error.

This calculation I have performed is also supported by experimental evidence performed by van der Vies4. His research showed that when the dose of nandrolone was divided into frequent small injections in such a pattern as to mimic the pharmacokinetics of esters, the anabolic effect became identical to that of the esters.

Thus, pharmacokinetics, the log dose/response curve, and differences in molecular weight are sufficient to account for observed differences in anabolic effect between different esters of an anabolic steroid, or between an ester and the parent drug.

This correlates with my observation that anabolic effect of testosterone esters is equal, so long as each is administered reasonably frequently: at least once per half-life, and preferably twice. E.g., if testosterone propionate yielding some given amount of testosterone per week is administered daily, or at least every other day, it will give results comparable to testosterone cypionate administered at least once every week, and preferably twice per week, that yields the same amount of testosterone per week.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can the differences in anabolic/androgenic ratio be accounted for, and how significant are they?

Partition coefficient is key information for determining how a drug will be distributed in the body. The ratio of solubility between oil and water gives good relative predictions of the ratios of solubility between blood and target organs. Different target organs, for example the levator ani muscle vs. the prostate, may have different solubility properties. A more lipophilic drug (one with a high partition coefficient) would distribute much moreso into a more lipophilic target organ than into a less lipophilic one. It may then be the case that the longer chain esters partition more preferentially into muscle and less preferentially into the skin and prostate, but this is not demonstrated.

For this to be the case, it would be necessary for the esterified steroids to be distributed throughout the body after slow release from the oil depot injection site, rather than to have only free parent drug released from the injection site. This is an agreement with the findings of James et al.3 which demonstrate that the esters do indeed become distributed throughout the body after injection.

I don’t, however, expect that differences in distribution are the primary reason for observed differences in anabolic/androgenic ratio between different steroid esters. There is another possible explanation for differences in this ratio. In the same work referenced above concerning anabolic effect as a function of pharmacokinetics, van der Vies showed that if nandrolone is administrated with frequent dosage patterns designed to give the same trend of serum levels as seen with either phenylpropionate or decanoate, nandrolone itself gave the same anabolic/androgenic ratios as each of these esters of nandrolone.


__________________________________________________

Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101

[This message was edited by MisterX on 03-18-2002 at 02:22 AM.]

[MisterX]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GymRatNYC:
Quote: "Originally posted by Cocktails:
Durabolin (Nandrolone phenylpropionate) must be injected every 2-3 days and should be used at a lower dose than Deca as it is only active for a few days VS Deca-Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate) which remains active for a few weeks.
Durabolin, if available, would be the first choice as blood levels would be better maintained if injected every 3 days at a lower dose.
Side effects at high dose is the same with both."
I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but phenylpropionate is NOT faster acting the way that propionate is... it's more on the level of a cypionate or enanthate, so weekly injections is sufficient.


http://www.msu.edu/home/images/msu.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gymrat is completely right..


__________________________________________________

Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101