Liver Values

Hummer · 02-25-2002, 09:13 PM

My sgot was 154 a few weeks ago. The doc lowered my Lipator from 40mg to 20mg. I am supposed to go back in about 5 weeks to retest. I have not been on AS in a few months but am getting ready for a Deca, EQ and Winny cycle. Question...if the SGOT has not improved should I risk doing a cycle?

PS: the doc knows of my AS use and assumes they are the problem along with the Lipator.

archive_Mr. Nobody · 02-26-2002, 06:31 AM

tough choice...liver or a little more muscles...I chose liver

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise.

Hummer · 02-26-2002, 11:38 AM

Thanks Mr. Nobody... anyone else?

archive_Ulter · 02-26-2002, 12:36 PM

If you're worried about it then drop the winny and you'll be fine. I would start taking Tyler liver detox and ALA right away though to try and drop that reading.

archive_Bjaarki · 02-26-2002, 01:25 PM

SGOT (also called AST, for aspartate aminotransferase) is pretty nonspecific as a test of liver function. It rises when the liver is injured, but it is also present in muscle and heart cells, so it will rise when muscle is destroyed (as in working out with weights). When liver, heart or muscle cells are destroyed or injured, the SGOT leaks into the bloodstream and can be picked up on assay. When liver is injured, you'll see a rise in ALT and other fractions as well.

I think the "reference range" for AST (values for about 95% of the population) is 7-46 U/L or something like that. Yours is about 3 times the upper limit. In serious conditions you'll see AST/ALT levels 10+ times the upper limit of the reference range.

So, don't be overly concerned. But the human body is integrated - something out of whack in one system will throw something out of whack in another - and high enzyme levels can cause problems. You do want these levels to come down. So don't do anything to injure your liver. Avoid alcohol, acetominophen, and oral steroids, including winny.

Bjaarki

" 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the Hero's name!"
Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO!

MisterX · 02-26-2002, 06:09 PM

Why take lipitor for high cholesterol anyways? Yeah so that's the latest 'pill' for cholesterol for a quick fix and a 500 billion dollar industry or so(read that somewhere) for the pharm companies. There are many things that lower cholesterol including low dose test/ jel or small inj., aerobics, b vitamins especially folic acid, vit c, dhea, lots of sleep(if not getting enough), omega 3 FAcids, garlic, hell even nolvadex(just to name a few). So, why not try a low test first(if test levels are not low), and other options instead of taking risky, new liver stressing drugs to give your cholesterol levels a quick fix. When supplements, vitamins and natural body hormones are what you body needs and is what will return your health more or better than normal. Think about it.

__________________________________________________

Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. -

Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101

Hummer · 02-26-2002, 09:05 PM

I didn't just decide to give Lipator a try, my doctor prescribed it. It also was not the first thing on the list several other options were tried first but failed to work. I guess life is full of trade offs.

Tall Dude · 02-26-2002, 11:14 PM

Your situation really depends on what your baseline cholesterol levels were.
If you had total values over 300 and LDL of 220+, then you don't have a lot of options other than Lipitor (nicknamed Liver-torn by its competitors).
However, if you were just borderline high, there are a lot of better ways to lower it - the best probably being a very low fat diet with a lot of fish and serious cardio sessions. It usually takes decades of high cholesterol to lead to a heart attack, but using Lipitor and AS could do serious damage to your body in a very short period of time.

Again, I am not offering medical advise - just stating an opinion. You and your doctor need to decide what to do.

planetx · 02-27-2002, 12:43 AM

What was your previous cycle (MEDS utilized) just before the 154 was registered?? How long of a break from end to when that value was taken?

Hummer · 02-27-2002, 04:41 PM

Previous cycle was

Viramone..500 per week

winny.. 50 eod

Hummer · 02-27-2002, 04:44 PM

and fina 75 eod.

tests were several weeks after. Then I was retested 2 months after that. I was on 40 mgs Lip a day. Cholesterol while I was on the gear was like 290 now it is 180.

Tall Dude · 02-27-2002, 07:46 PM

So your total cholesterol on 20mg of Lipitor is 180?
I personally would try and get off the Lipitor with cardio and diet.
There are people that walk around with a 290 total cholesterol for decades without a problem, then again there's other that croak from a heart attack at 45 with cholesterol in the mid 200s.
High cholesterol is a risk factor, but your situation is complicated by the AS use.
If it was me, I would go totally clean for a couple of months with a super low fat diet and no drugs whatsoever and then get the cholesterol tested.
If you read in the normal range, then you know it's just the gear and is a short term effect.
Then you can make a better judgement as to your future health.

Again, just my opinion.

E2 · 02-28-2002, 09:28 AM

forget the liver enzymes they're not indicative of liver damage.

what you need to look at is your creatine kinase levels (CK) and your gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT) levels. They will indicate liver damage

Fukkenshredded · 02-28-2002, 10:14 AM

There is no convincing evidence of high cholesterol alone being a risk factor in heart disease. In those who were diagnosed with the disease in, I think, the late nineties...exactly half had high cholesterol. I can't remember the reference study that pointed this out, and along with that fact made theobservation that high cholesterol in conjunction with obesity is definitely a factor. My cholesterol has been 300, even off gear. It runs in my family, on both sides. However, on my father's side (where cholesterol readings for everyone are in the high 200's at least), there are no instances of heart disease, and there are three centarians in the past five generations, along with five others who lasted beyond 95 years. One of my great aunts lived to be 109. I'm not sure what her cholesterol readings were! Interestingly, the incidence of mental disorders (also prevalent in my family)was higher among those who lived to an extremely advanced age. This strikes me as strange, although I cannot pinpoint the reason. In the final analysis it would seem that genetics are THE primary factor in our physical development, at least for now. Which is the consensus of this board already.

02-25-2002, 09:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Hummer Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 5772	Liver Values My sgot was 154 a few weeks ago. The doc lowered my Lipator from 40mg to 20mg. I am supposed to go back in about 5 weeks to retest. I have not been on AS in a few months but am getting ready for a Deca, EQ and Winny cycle. Question...if the SGOT has not improved should I risk doing a cycle? PS: the doc knows of my AS use and assumes they are the problem along with the Lipator.

02-26-2002, 01:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
archive_Bjaarki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 3,673 Rep Power: 13546	SGOT (also called AST, for aspartate aminotransferase) is pretty nonspecific as a test of liver function. It rises when the liver is injured, but it is also present in muscle and heart cells, so it will rise when muscle is destroyed (as in working out with weights). When liver, heart or muscle cells are destroyed or injured, the SGOT leaks into the bloodstream and can be picked up on assay. When liver is injured, you'll see a rise in ALT and other fractions as well. I think the "reference range" for AST (values for about 95% of the population) is 7-46 U/L or something like that. Yours is about 3 times the upper limit. In serious conditions you'll see AST/ALT levels 10+ times the upper limit of the reference range. So, don't be overly concerned. But the human body is integrated - something out of whack in one system will throw something out of whack in another - and high enzyme levels can cause problems. You do want these levels to come down. So don't do anything to injure your liver. Avoid alcohol, acetominophen, and oral steroids, including winny. Bjaarki " 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten, high under Heaven, the Hero's name!" Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland) BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO! __________________ First, say to yourself what you would become. Then, do what you have to do.

02-26-2002, 06:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
MisterX Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 468 Rep Power: 5997	Lipitor? Why take lipitor for high cholesterol anyways? Yeah so that's the latest 'pill' for cholesterol for a quick fix and a 500 billion dollar industry or so(read that somewhere) for the pharm companies. There are many things that lower cholesterol including low dose test/ jel or small inj., aerobics, b vitamins especially folic acid, vit c, dhea, lots of sleep(if not getting enough), omega 3 FAcids, garlic, hell even nolvadex(just to name a few). So, why not try a low test first(if test levels are not low), and other options instead of taking risky, new liver stressing drugs to give your cholesterol levels a quick fix. When supplements, vitamins and natural body hormones are what you body needs and is what will return your health more or better than normal. Think about it. __________________________________________________ Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. - Horace's Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101 __________________ __________________________________________________ Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego. - Horace&apos;s Satires, book 1, satire 5, lines 100-101

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02-26-2002, 06:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
archive_Mr. Nobody Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 5,080 Rep Power: 11939	tough choice...liver or a little more muscles...I chose liver Disclaimer: Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner. The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise.

02-26-2002, 11:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
Hummer Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 5772	Thanks Mr. Nobody... anyone else?

02-26-2002, 09:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Hummer Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 5772	I didn't just decide to give Lipator a try, my doctor prescribed it. It also was not the first thing on the list several other options were tried first but failed to work. I guess life is full of trade offs.

02-26-2002, 11:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tall Dude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 244 Rep Power: 5989	Your situation really depends on what your baseline cholesterol levels were. If you had total values over 300 and LDL of 220+, then you don't have a lot of options other than Lipitor (nicknamed Liver-torn by its competitors). However, if you were just borderline high, there are a lot of better ways to lower it - the best probably being a very low fat diet with a lot of fish and serious cardio sessions. It usually takes decades of high cholesterol to lead to a heart attack, but using Lipitor and AS could do serious damage to your body in a very short period of time. Again, I am not offering medical advise - just stating an opinion. You and your doctor need to decide what to do.

02-27-2002, 12:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
planetx Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 51 Rep Power: 5270	What was your previous cycle (MEDS utilized) just before the 154 was registered?? How long of a break from end to when that value was taken?

02-27-2002, 04:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hummer Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 5772	Previous cycle was Viramone..500 per week winny.. 50 eod

02-27-2002, 04:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
Hummer Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37 Rep Power: 5772	and fina 75 eod. tests were several weeks after. Then I was retested 2 months after that. I was on 40 mgs Lip a day. Cholesterol while I was on the gear was like 290 now it is 180.

02-27-2002, 07:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tall Dude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 244 Rep Power: 5989	So your total cholesterol on 20mg of Lipitor is 180? I personally would try and get off the Lipitor with cardio and diet. There are people that walk around with a 290 total cholesterol for decades without a problem, then again there's other that croak from a heart attack at 45 with cholesterol in the mid 200s. High cholesterol is a risk factor, but your situation is complicated by the AS use. If it was me, I would go totally clean for a couple of months with a super low fat diet and no drugs whatsoever and then get the cholesterol tested. If you read in the normal range, then you know it's just the gear and is a short term effect. Then you can make a better judgement as to your future health. Again, just my opinion.

02-28-2002, 10:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
Fukkenshredded Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,036 Rep Power: 13713	There is no convincing evidence of high cholesterol alone being a risk factor in heart disease. In those who were diagnosed with the disease in, I think, the late nineties...exactly half had high cholesterol. I can't remember the reference study that pointed this out, and along with that fact made theobservation that high cholesterol in conjunction with obesity is definitely a factor. My cholesterol has been 300, even off gear. It runs in my family, on both sides. However, on my father's side (where cholesterol readings for everyone are in the high 200's at least), there are no instances of heart disease, and there are three centarians in the past five generations, along with five others who lasted beyond 95 years. One of my great aunts lived to be 109. I'm not sure what her cholesterol readings were! Interestingly, the incidence of mental disorders (also prevalent in my family)was higher among those who lived to an extremely advanced age. This strikes me as strange, although I cannot pinpoint the reason. In the final analysis it would seem that genetics are THE primary factor in our physical development, at least for now. Which is the consensus of this board already.