Are my test levels low enough for therapy

growin' · 02-25-2002, 12:22 PM

I am 24 going on 25, my last cycle was 5 months ago and was followed up with clomid + arimidex. I am now all natural. I got some blood work done last week, and my test level was 240. Cholesterol and everything else is fine. The normal range for test is (225-800). My doc thought 240 was OK, but of course, I think its WAY TOO LOW!!! Any chance I might get to legally pump some cyp in my ass every week? I wonder if taking some Tagamet for a few weeks before another test would be enough to drop my levels below 225.

Any help is much appreciated.

I am the booty bandit!

archive_Ulter · 02-25-2002, 12:27 PM

You should ask. I am sure you can find a doc to give you cyp with test levels that low.

growin' · 02-25-2002, 12:30 PM

Thanks Ulter. I can imagine 240 would be acceptable for a 40 year old, but not for a strappingly fit 24 year old. I wonder if I still haven't recovered from the last cycle. I'll have to look into this. What test levels did you guys have that were given Rx's?

I am a viking!

archive_Mr. Nobody · 02-25-2002, 12:31 PM

Ask him how the doc determins 240 is o.k? Oh, a table on a piece of paper? Then tell him, that you might have had 1200 last year for all you know and felt fine, but that you feel like shit now, can't sleep, cant get it up, have no sex drive and can't lose weight no matter what you do...then let him tell u your test level is sufficient, again. If he does, find another doc.

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise.

growin' · 02-25-2002, 12:56 PM

See here's what I'm dealing with:

1. I was getting fat. Yes, I was trying to bulk, but I got much fatter than I used too.

2. Decreased sexual desire. I have a hot wife, that is my best friend. I want her and can still get it up, but I just don't respond as quickly as I used to. Plus, it takes alot of work and concentraion to finish.

3. Depression. I have tried Paxil and Celexa, but they made the sexual desire even lower, and it was impossible to come.

4. Lack of energy. I don't feel like doing a damn thing. I am on a diet now, so this could be making it worse, but I am also on ECY which usually does the trick.

5. Less confidence. I am not as outgoing as I used to be, and just don't seem to be as good with people any more.

This is the honest truth. Should the above examples suffice, or should I spruce it up?

I am a viking!

archive_Bjaarki · 02-25-2002, 01:10 PM

... especially for a lifter. Lifting alone will boost endogenous test levels quite a bit.

The question is, first, why is your test level so low? and, second, what can you do about it? These are two different questions.

In re the first question, there are a couple of issues to consider. One is the degree to which your test results are reliable. There is measurement error in anything. I don't know what the standard error of test levels is, but you could find out. The other question is the degree to which the low level is an abiding effect of your last cycle. I bet it is. Both of these indicate that a retest would be a good idea.

In re the second question - what to do about it? - a sensible approach would be to say that though 5 months is a long time to be in recovery - that's about how long it has been for me, and I know exactly what that's like, so I can empathize, and don't blame you for craving a nice dart of cyp from your doc, paid for by your insurer - nevertheless edndogenous test production can be suppressed for even longer than 5 months, if your cycle was very heavy or sustained, or if you are individually liable to suppressive effects, and everyone is different on that. If that's the case, as I bet it is - that your low test level is due to the gear you used last year - then prescribed cyp would just aggravate the situation, and would not be the way for a young guy to go. Why would you want to do that? Problems generally do not morph into solutions. The doses that can be prescribed within the guidelines of the USP for purposes of HRT are not all that big, you know. Maybe 400mg/wk. If I were your age, I would not be willing to sacrifice indefinitely my ability to produce my own test for a measly 400mg/wk. Maybe you would, but that seems mighty damn foolish and short-sighted to me. A smarter choice would be to let your natural capacity recover further, then use anabolics in a cyclic, rather than 24/7, kind of fashion, using a good post-cycle regime to minimize and shorten test suppression.

Could be that you are just built that way with low test levels, and so are a genuine candidate for HRT. You'd have to agree, though, that, given the fact that you've used exogenous hormones, the chances are that it is those exogenous hormones that have produced the current problem. That will be a temporary problem, unless you make it into a permanent one with some hasty HRT program, which most docs would be reluctant to consider in your case, anyway.

My $.02. Hope it works out for you. Welcome back from the Arnold to Ulter and everyone else at AF

Bjaarki

" 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the Hero's name!"
Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO!

growin' · 02-25-2002, 01:18 PM

My last cycle was pretty long. 1000mg enanthate + 600mg EQ for 10 weeks. I also used 35mg Dbol ED for the first 5 weeks, and 50mg Winny ED for the last 5. After 3 weeks of Clomid and Arimidex, I used 200-300mg of Primo for the next 7 weeks, then I got married and gave up juice for the wife. So, perhaps I should have a re-test in a few months?

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I am a viking!

archive_Mr. Nobody · 02-25-2002, 01:27 PM

I don't buy into this lifting will increase your test levels anymore...
Ever thought of this: You have a test level of lets say 500 and you weigh 130lbs, very little muscle, but lots of test. 500 will be enugh to boost your brain and make you super horny, cause the few muscles u have, dont need any.
Now you got up to 260lbs, all muscles. Suddenly 500 aint shit, why? Cause your greedy muscles use it all up and your brain gets none.
Conclusion? Make your own...
Is this too simplified?

growin: Elaborate on the sexual dysfunction part to your doctor. If he is worth anything the good doc should test LH, Estrogen, Prolactin, free testosterone as well, then he can tell why u are low. You want to rule out any serious problems.

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise.

archive_Bjaarki · 02-25-2002, 01:50 PM

Mr. N, the results of a testosterone assay (and any other blood test) are expressed not as an absolute quantity in the body, but as a mass per unit volume or moles per unit volume (like mg per deciliter of blood, or mmoles per deciliter). So a result of "500" is the same, proportionally, for your 130 pound guy and your 260 pound guy. The bigger guy has more total test in his body, but the concentration is the same. It's not like the big guy has the same absolute quantity as the little guy, and so burns it up quicker, leaving him starving.

There is absolutely no doubt that lifting boosts natural test levels. None. That's one of the reasons why lifters were big guys a long time before they isolated testosterone for supplementation purposes.

Bjaarki

" 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the Hero's name!"
Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO

archive_Mr. Nobody · 02-25-2002, 03:04 PM

Right, the concentration is the same, I know. What I am saying is, that the proportion of muscle weight per test concentration should be the same. Everything being equal (test concentration per muscle) or even higher (upregulation of AR) must then give a big guy less non-muscle bound test, cause of more muscle percentage in his weight. Also everyone knows that in order to maintain high muscle mass you need high test levels, so your old test concentration wont suffice anymore.

Argh, I dont even understand myself now [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

The reason I dont believe in the test upregulation of exercise anymore, is because of overtraining and faster clearance of test post exercise. To elaborate: I think heavy basics do increase testosterone specially in beginners, but I think in highly trained individuells it becomes a wash. Those athlets are also constantly on the verge of overtraining, plus the littlie extra test being produced does not benefit their sexual drive due to above observation.

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise.

[This message was edited by Mr. Nobody on 02-26-2002 at 08:28 AM.]

02-25-2002, 10:09 PM

Contact Ulter and have him contact me with your email addy. I too do not list my email addy, and tend to be a private individual. But I believe I can help you with this with some quick advice....

growin' · 02-26-2002, 09:08 AM

Thanks Got wood, I sent Ulter an email just now.

I am a viking!

onicap · 02-26-2002, 09:28 AM

Growin...I'm in your same boat...new hot wife, givin up juice, and same sex problems. I'm going to the doc on Monday to get them to do tests on me. My last cycle was almost clone to yours. Ended aas on dec. 31 and used arimdex through cycle and through clomid therapy. It's a bummer to not be able to perform on cue anymore. It's definitely been hard on the marriage lately.

growin' · 02-26-2002, 10:07 AM

onicap, I hear you. It is hell on a marriage. No matter what you say, they think its something they've done, or you don't think they're hot, or you don't love then any more. Basically, it sucks.

I am a viking!

archive_Bjaarki · 02-26-2002, 11:39 AM

... as much as anything.

Listen to yourself:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I was getting fat ... Decreased sexual desire ... Depression ... Lack of energy ... Less confidence ... I am not as outgoing as I used to be.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's this all about? Is the weight gain, loss of libido, depression, anergia, and social withdrawal a result of the sexual frustration and loss of satisfaction with your body? Are all of them together caused by some other, underlying, problem? It's even possible that depression like you describe is an abiding after-effect, a withdrawal symptom if you will, of anabolic use.

I hope you're talking to someone about this, at least to your wife. She sounds pretty special, and it would help her to hear that "it's not her," and that you're doing something positive about your sitch.

Bjaarki

Daeo · 02-26-2002, 12:35 PM

I had the same test levels you did after my operation(testicular cancer). I asked for help but got none. They said I was normal. Decided not to go from doctor to doctor begging for test therapy and went the illegal route. Whenever off test I experience the same sides you do. It sucks...

growin' · 02-26-2002, 02:13 PM

Depressed, yeah I think so. My family on both sides has a genetic pre-disposition for not producing enough serotonin. Both Mom and Dad are on SRI's. A while back I was on Paxil, for a duration of about 2 years. Back then it was hard on the sex drive, but mostly it just took forever to come. I stopped taking Paxil becuase I felt I didn't need it. For the last year and a half, I have been off of Paxil and with my wife. Overall I have been good, minus a few "episodes".

Well my mental state had gotten worse about 3 months ago. I decided to try Celexa. Big mistake! NO SEX DRIVE AT ALL! So, I stopped it. I had to take it behind my wife's back despite the fact that we discussed SRI's and my past use. She says I don't need them, that people always feel down at times, and people just need to get over it. I felt like a junky sneeking my meds behind her back. I don't think she quite understands the difference between feeling down, and being depressed. Other than that, she is awesome. If it weren't for her, I'd be much worse off, mentally at least.

With my test levels so low, SRI's make sex next to impossible. I have felt like this before, and that was when I decided to go on Paxil. I wonder if some H.C.G, clomid, and arimidex would do the trick? I'd rather not take test unless I had to. It'd be OK with it now, but in 50 years, I "may" be sick of it.

I am a viking!

archive_Bjaarki · 02-26-2002, 03:20 PM

Well, it's true that most episodes of depression are self-limiting. Your wife is right about that.

But, if you're genetically loaded for mood disorder, if you have a personal history of it yourself, and if your symptoms have abided for awhile, and are not getting any better ... then quit talking to us about it, and go see someone with the right credentials to get some help. It doesn't have to come in the form of a med, if that's what you're worried about. Cognitive therapies are pretty damned effective these days, more effective than SSRIs in many controlled trials.

But H C G, clo, 'dex, five months after your last cycle? That doesn't make any sense, bro. You're thinking like a gearhead, instead of taking the action you need to take. Start with the support and understanding of this woman who loves you, then take it from there.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I had to take it behind my wife's back ... I felt like a junky sneeking my meds behind her back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmmmm...... Where have I heard that before? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

Bjaark

growin' · 02-26-2002, 04:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But H C G, clo, 'dex, five months after your last cycle? That doesn't make any sense, bro. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was considering those to get my test levels back to normal. Even though I'm natural now, I guess I will always be a gearhead at heart [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I think I will go talk to the doc next week. Thanks for listening and all the advice fellas. Bjaarki, I will try some talking before I start any popping/poking. Thanks

I am a viking!

Suspension · 02-28-2002, 11:35 AM

Growin'

I think you need to have a heart to heart talk w/ your wife. If she loves you, she will support your actions. Hey, Im on paxil/Buspar. I am much better off than I was, and my fiance understands that, with 100% support. It means a lot to me.

02-25-2002, 12:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
archive_Ulter Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 15,388 Rep Power: 21906	You should ask. I am sure you can find a doc to give you cyp with test levels that low. __________________

02-25-2002, 12:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
growin&apos; Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 5625	Thanks Ulter. I can imagine 240 would be acceptable for a 40 year old, but not for a strappingly fit 24 year old. I wonder if I still haven't recovered from the last cycle. I'll have to look into this. What test levels did you guys have that were given Rx's? I am a viking! __________________ I am a viking!

02-25-2002, 12:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
growin&apos; Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 5625	See here's what I'm dealing with: 1. I was getting fat. Yes, I was trying to bulk, but I got much fatter than I used too. 2. Decreased sexual desire. I have a hot wife, that is my best friend. I want her and can still get it up, but I just don't respond as quickly as I used to. Plus, it takes alot of work and concentraion to finish. 3. Depression. I have tried Paxil and Celexa, but they made the sexual desire even lower, and it was impossible to come. 4. Lack of energy. I don't feel like doing a damn thing. I am on a diet now, so this could be making it worse, but I am also on ECY which usually does the trick. 5. Less confidence. I am not as outgoing as I used to be, and just don't seem to be as good with people any more. This is the honest truth. Should the above examples suffice, or should I spruce it up? I am a viking! __________________ I am a viking!

02-25-2002, 01:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
archive_Bjaarki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 3,673 Rep Power: 13546	240 is pretty low ... ... especially for a lifter. Lifting alone will boost endogenous test levels quite a bit. The question is, first, why is your test level so low? and, second, what can you do about it? These are two different questions. In re the first question, there are a couple of issues to consider. One is the degree to which your test results are reliable. There is measurement error in anything. I don't know what the standard error of test levels is, but you could find out. The other question is the degree to which the low level is an abiding effect of your last cycle. I bet it is. Both of these indicate that a retest would be a good idea. In re the second question - what to do about it? - a sensible approach would be to say that though 5 months is a long time to be in recovery - that's about how long it has been for me, and I know exactly what that's like, so I can empathize, and don't blame you for craving a nice dart of cyp from your doc, paid for by your insurer - nevertheless edndogenous test production can be suppressed for even longer than 5 months, if your cycle was very heavy or sustained, or if you are individually liable to suppressive effects, and everyone is different on that. If that's the case, as I bet it is - that your low test level is due to the gear you used last year - then prescribed cyp would just aggravate the situation, and would not be the way for a young guy to go. Why would you want to do that? Problems generally do not morph into solutions. The doses that can be prescribed within the guidelines of the USP for purposes of HRT are not all that big, you know. Maybe 400mg/wk. If I were your age, I would not be willing to sacrifice indefinitely my ability to produce my own test for a measly 400mg/wk. Maybe you would, but that seems mighty damn foolish and short-sighted to me. A smarter choice would be to let your natural capacity recover further, then use anabolics in a cyclic, rather than 24/7, kind of fashion, using a good post-cycle regime to minimize and shorten test suppression. Could be that you are just built that way with low test levels, and so are a genuine candidate for HRT. You'd have to agree, though, that, given the fact that you've used exogenous hormones, the chances are that it is those exogenous hormones that have produced the current problem. That will be a temporary problem, unless you make it into a permanent one with some hasty HRT program, which most docs would be reluctant to consider in your case, anyway. My $.02. Hope it works out for you. Welcome back from the Arnold to Ulter and everyone else at AF Bjaarki " 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten, high under Heaven, the Hero's name!" Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland) BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO! __________________ First, say to yourself what you would become. Then, do what you have to do.

02-25-2002, 01:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
growin&apos; Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 5625	My last cycle was pretty long. 1000mg enanthate + 600mg EQ for 10 weeks. I also used 35mg Dbol ED for the first 5 weeks, and 50mg Winny ED for the last 5. After 3 weeks of Clomid and Arimidex, I used 200-300mg of Primo for the next 7 weeks, then I got married and gave up juice for the wife. So, perhaps I should have a re-test in a few months? Thanks for all the replies guys. I am a viking! __________________ I am a viking!

02-25-2002, 12:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
archive_Mr. Nobody Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 5,080 Rep Power: 11939	Ask him how the doc determins 240 is o.k? Oh, a table on a piece of paper? Then tell him, that you might have had 1200 last year for all you know and felt fine, but that you feel like shit now, can't sleep, cant get it up, have no sex drive and can't lose weight no matter what you do...then let him tell u your test level is sufficient, again. If he does, find another doc. Disclaimer: Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner. The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise.

02-25-2002, 01:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
archive_Mr. Nobody Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 5,080 Rep Power: 11939	I don't buy into this lifting will increase your test levels anymore... Ever thought of this: You have a test level of lets say 500 and you weigh 130lbs, very little muscle, but lots of test. 500 will be enugh to boost your brain and make you super horny, cause the few muscles u have, dont need any. Now you got up to 260lbs, all muscles. Suddenly 500 aint shit, why? Cause your greedy muscles use it all up and your brain gets none. Conclusion? Make your own... Is this too simplified? growin: Elaborate on the sexual dysfunction part to your doctor. If he is worth anything the good doc should test LH, Estrogen, Prolactin, free testosterone as well, then he can tell why u are low. You want to rule out any serious problems. Disclaimer: Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner. The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise.

02-25-2002, 01:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
archive_Bjaarki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 3,673 Rep Power: 13546	Mr. N, the results of a testosterone assay (and any other blood test) are expressed not as an absolute quantity in the body, but as a mass per unit volume or moles per unit volume (like mg per deciliter of blood, or mmoles per deciliter). So a result of "500" is the same, proportionally, for your 130 pound guy and your 260 pound guy. The bigger guy has more total test in his body, but the concentration is the same. It's not like the big guy has the same absolute quantity as the little guy, and so burns it up quicker, leaving him starving. There is absolutely no doubt that lifting boosts natural test levels. None. That's one of the reasons why lifters were big guys a long time before they isolated testosterone for supplementation purposes. Bjaarki " 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten, high under Heaven, the Hero's name!" Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland) BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO __________________ First, say to yourself what you would become. Then, do what you have to do.

02-25-2002, 03:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
archive_Mr. Nobody Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 5,080 Rep Power: 11939	Right, the concentration is the same, I know. What I am saying is, that the proportion of muscle weight per test concentration should be the same. Everything being equal (test concentration per muscle) or even higher (upregulation of AR) must then give a big guy less non-muscle bound test, cause of more muscle percentage in his weight. Also everyone knows that in order to maintain high muscle mass you need high test levels, so your old test concentration wont suffice anymore. Argh, I dont even understand myself now [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] The reason I dont believe in the test upregulation of exercise anymore, is because of overtraining and faster clearance of test post exercise. To elaborate: I think heavy basics do increase testosterone specially in beginners, but I think in highly trained individuells it becomes a wash. Those athlets are also constantly on the verge of overtraining, plus the littlie extra test being produced does not benefit their sexual drive due to above observation. Disclaimer: Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner. The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advise. [This message was edited by Mr. Nobody on 02-26-2002 at 08:28 AM.]

02-25-2002, 10:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	Growin' Contact Ulter and have him contact me with your email addy. I too do not list my email addy, and tend to be a private individual. But I believe I can help you with this with some quick advice....

02-26-2002, 09:08 AM	#12 (permalink)
growin&apos; Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 5625	Thanks Got wood, I sent Ulter an email just now. I am a viking! __________________ I am a viking!

02-26-2002, 09:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
onicap Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 72 Rep Power: 5847	Growin...I'm in your same boat...new hot wife, givin up juice, and same sex problems. I'm going to the doc on Monday to get them to do tests on me. My last cycle was almost clone to yours. Ended aas on dec. 31 and used arimdex through cycle and through clomid therapy. It's a bummer to not be able to perform on cue anymore. It's definitely been hard on the marriage lately.

02-26-2002, 10:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
growin&apos; Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 5625	onicap, I hear you. It is hell on a marriage. No matter what you say, they think its something they've done, or you don't think they're hot, or you don't love then any more. Basically, it sucks. I am a viking! __________________ I am a viking!

02-26-2002, 11:39 AM	#15 (permalink)
archive_Bjaarki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 3,673 Rep Power: 13546	Bro, you sound depressed ... ... as much as anything. Listen to yourself: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I was getting fat ... Decreased sexual desire ... Depression ... Lack of energy ... Less confidence ... I am not as outgoing as I used to be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What's this all about? Is the weight gain, loss of libido, depression, anergia, and social withdrawal a result of the sexual frustration and loss of satisfaction with your body? Are all of them together caused by some other, underlying, problem? It's even possible that depression like you describe is an abiding after-effect, a withdrawal symptom if you will, of anabolic use. I hope you're talking to someone about this, at least to your wife. She sounds pretty special, and it would help her to hear that "it's not her," and that you're doing something positive about your sitch. Bjaarki __________________ First, say to yourself what you would become. Then, do what you have to do.

02-26-2002, 12:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
Daeo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 771 Rep Power: 6718	I had the same test levels you did after my operation(testicular cancer). I asked for help but got none. They said I was normal. Decided not to go from doctor to doctor begging for test therapy and went the illegal route. Whenever off test I experience the same sides you do. It sucks...

02-26-2002, 02:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
growin&apos; Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 5625	Depressed, yeah I think so. My family on both sides has a genetic pre-disposition for not producing enough serotonin. Both Mom and Dad are on SRI's. A while back I was on Paxil, for a duration of about 2 years. Back then it was hard on the sex drive, but mostly it just took forever to come. I stopped taking Paxil becuase I felt I didn't need it. For the last year and a half, I have been off of Paxil and with my wife. Overall I have been good, minus a few "episodes". Well my mental state had gotten worse about 3 months ago. I decided to try Celexa. Big mistake! NO SEX DRIVE AT ALL! So, I stopped it. I had to take it behind my wife's back despite the fact that we discussed SRI's and my past use. She says I don't need them, that people always feel down at times, and people just need to get over it. I felt like a junky sneeking my meds behind her back. I don't think she quite understands the difference between feeling down, and being depressed. Other than that, she is awesome. If it weren't for her, I'd be much worse off, mentally at least. With my test levels so low, SRI's make sex next to impossible. I have felt like this before, and that was when I decided to go on Paxil. I wonder if some H.C.G, clomid, and arimidex would do the trick? I'd rather not take test unless I had to. It'd be OK with it now, but in 50 years, I "may" be sick of it. I am a viking! __________________ I am a viking!

02-26-2002, 03:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
archive_Bjaarki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 3,673 Rep Power: 13546	Well, it's true that most episodes of depression are self-limiting. Your wife is right about that. But, if you're genetically loaded for mood disorder, if you have a personal history of it yourself, and if your symptoms have abided for awhile, and are not getting any better ... then quit talking to us about it, and go see someone with the right credentials to get some help. It doesn't have to come in the form of a med, if that's what you're worried about. Cognitive therapies are pretty damned effective these days, more effective than SSRIs in many controlled trials. But H C G, clo, 'dex, five months after your last cycle? That doesn't make any sense, bro. You're thinking like a gearhead, instead of taking the action you need to take. Start with the support and understanding of this woman who loves you, then take it from there. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I had to take it behind my wife's back ... I felt like a junky sneeking my meds behind her back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmmmmmm...... Where have I heard that before? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Bjaark __________________ First, say to yourself what you would become. Then, do what you have to do.

02-26-2002, 04:05 PM	#19 (permalink)
growin&apos; Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 78 Rep Power: 5625	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But H C G, clo, 'dex, five months after your last cycle? That doesn't make any sense, bro. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was considering those to get my test levels back to normal. Even though I'm natural now, I guess I will always be a gearhead at heart [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I think I will go talk to the doc next week. Thanks for listening and all the advice fellas. Bjaarki, I will try some talking before I start any popping/poking. Thanks I am a viking! __________________ I am a viking!

02-28-2002, 11:35 AM	#20 (permalink)
Suspension Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 15 Rep Power: 5576	Growin' I think you need to have a heart to heart talk w/ your wife. If she loves you, she will support your actions. Hey, Im on paxil/Buspar. I am much better off than I was, and my fiance understands that, with 100% support. It means a lot to me.

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