ART

[kook]

So about 4 weeks ago now, I dislocated my shoulder squatting, put it back in myself, not unusual as it's an old injury, but this was probably the worst reinjure since the original.

My chiro that I see on a regular basis said it may be a good idea to see his partner who does ART.

I have read up a bit on it, but not sure what to expect.
Is it worth it?
My strength in the shoulder has been going up. Is it too late to really do anything beneficial?
It's not really painful anymore,(sore during certain movements) but silly things like putting my shirt on too fast will hurt it for some good time(few hours)

Thoughts and Opinions?

[strawberryriddick]

I see a physical therapist who's also an orthopaedic. Just Thursday, she fixed something that I had already thought I had to live with way long ago. My shoulders sucked. They were weak and they hurt all the time, even lifting a straight arm with no weights. Turns out, a muscle that's supposed to control shoulder blade movement didn't work right, and so she fixed it and it's better.

My advice is to see someone like this and not a chiro. I only know a handful of people who have had great experiences with chiropractors, and if yours isn't working for you, ditch him and find an orthopaedic. They're like chiro's in the sense they manipulate you, but they do it for your whole body.

[sassy69]

ART is more like muscle / tendon therapy than chiropractic. If possible I try to pair a isit to the chiro w/ a visit to a massage therapist so the muscles are encouraged to hold the bones where the chiro pushes them. Are you still experiencing soreness from the dislocation? For that it might be worth a visit.

[Beverly McD.]

Very possible you have some stretched ligaments from the dislocation, which in turn causes further dislocations. It's a merry-go-round. Surgery is the only thing I know of that can tighten those back up.

[strawberryriddick]

Please use surgery as a last resort. There are so many complications that can happen, sometimes it's not worth it. Maybe that's just on base, I don't know, but I wouldn't risk it, personally. Exhaust everything else first.

[kook]

I see a physical therapist who's also an orthopaedic. Just Thursday, she fixed something that I had already thought I had to live with way long ago. My shoulders sucked. They were weak and they hurt all the time, even lifting a straight arm with no weights. Turns out, a muscle that's supposed to control shoulder blade movement didn't work right, and so she fixed it and it's better.

My advice is to see someone like this and not a chiro. I only know a handful of people who have had great experiences with chiropractors, and if yours isn't working for you, ditch him and find an orthopaedic. They're like chiro's in the sense they manipulate you, but they do it for your whole body.
Well, I've been seeing a chiro since I was 12 for scoliosis, I've seen so many I know what a good one and a bad one is. My chiro is good, and he is also an ortho,

ART is more like muscle / tendon therapy than chiropractic. If possible I try to pair a isit to the chiro w/ a visit to a massage therapist so the muscles are encouraged to hold the bones where the chiro pushes them. Are you still experiencing soreness from the dislocation? For that it might be worth a visit.
Yes it is sore, not all the time, but if I use it wrong, move too fast or put it in an awkward position it hurts. this guy just happens to be a chiro that does ART.

Very possible you have some stretched ligaments from the dislocation, which in turn causes further dislocations. It's a merry-go-round. Surgery is the only thing I know of that can tighten those back up.
yes, I've heard this from quite a few people. I do believe I will get surgery at some point down the line.

Please use surgery as a last resort. There are so many complications that can happen, sometimes it's not worth it. Maybe that's just on base, I don't know, but I wouldn't risk it, personally. Exhaust everything else first.

Thanks, thats my plan, I don't want surgery, and its just not an option for me right now anyway, but sometime in the future, i'm sure I will have to.

[kook]

Thanks for all the answers everyone.

I guess some other things I was also looking for that I didn't ask.

He told me its quite painful, So what kind of recovery time are you looking at between sessions?
Say I did my pressing on tuesday and did some ART on Weds. would it be ok to work with it come the next week?

Would/Should I get both shoulders worked on for balance?

[sassy69]

Thanks for all the answers everyone.

I guess some other things I was also looking for that I didn't ask.

He told me its quite painful, So what kind of recovery time are you looking at between sessions?
Say I did my pressing on tuesday and did some ART on Weds. would it be ok to work with it come the next week?

Would/Should I get both shoulders worked on for balance?

These are probably better questions for the ART guy. In 2003 I did a couple sessions w/ an ART guy in Minneapolis for a rotated pelvis which left me w/ ridiculously tight piriformis... stretching those particular areas - IT band / pirimformis - is just really hard in general and it was friggen murder the way he did the stretching. When its over you feel like you just finished a heavy workout on that muscle group.

I only went a few times because the doc was about an hour away depending on traffic & snow storms. I ultimately have relied on another chiro + a lot of massage therapy to get my issues fixed. I can't say that ART would've "fixed" everything or not.

You may want to give consideration to that when scheduling it around your other workouts.

Generally I've found that if I take too much time off I suffer for it (e.g. muscles stay sore & locked up) - stretching & working out is better. If you have to avoid the one place, fine, but still train.

You might want to just talk to the guy & get his input.

[kook]

Thanks Sassy, I will talk to him about those things, but also just wanted to hear from other sources that have some experience with ART

I think I will set up an appointment for weds. I guess I have nothing to lose so might as well try it.

[C. Smith]

Kara and i love our ART guy. He's worked on our shoulders, knees, backs, hips, etc...good stuff. You won't be out of commission for any workouts, imo.

[Sarge]

He told me its quite painful, So what kind of recovery time are you looking at between sessions?
Say I did my pressing on tuesday and did some ART on Weds. would it be ok to work with it come the next week?
Would/Should I get both shoulders worked on for balance?
It would be fine come the next week.

I had both shoulders done last year. ART is quite painful, IMO or at least from the person that did it on me (massaged my dang bones, lol)... I had to strap ice bags to my shoulders after it and down some Ibprophen.

All the deep work will become inflamed very quickly, so get home and plan to relax for the night after.

[Polski Byk]

Thanks for all the answers everyone.

I guess some other things I was also looking for that I didn't ask.

He told me its quite painful, So what kind of recovery time are you looking at between sessions?
Say I did my pressing on tuesday and did some ART on Weds. would it be ok to work with it come the next week?

Would/Should I get both shoulders worked on for balance?

Def ok to work them the next week. Yhe concept of art is to get blood into the muscles to aid in recoup. So twice a week is ok...just dont attempt any prs;)
Plus get into the practice of doing both shoulders, help to avoid compensation.

[kook]

Kara and i love our ART guy. He's worked on our shoulders, knees, backs, hips, etc...good stuff. You won't be out of commission for any workouts, imo.
wonderful! hips and knees too? see how the shoulders go and may have to get that done too.

It would be fine come the next week.

I had both shoulders done last year. ART is quite painful, IMO or at least from the person that did it on me (massaged my dang bones, lol)... I had to strap ice bags to my shoulders after it and down some Ibprophen.

All the deep work will become inflamed very quickly, so get home and plan to relax for the night after.
thanks Sarge, sounds like fun all this pain

Def ok to work them the next week. Yhe concept of art is to get blood into the muscles to aid in recoup. So twice a week is ok...just dont attempt any prs;)
Plus get into the practice of doing both shoulders, help to avoid compensation.
thanks Polski, good to know, don't think I'll be attempting any pr's in my weakened state anyway:frantic:
Actually someone told me once, that your grip comes from shoulders and traps, so Maybe this will help my grip a bit too, that would be nice.

[Polski Byk]

wonderful! hips and knees too? see how the shoulders go and may have to get that done too.

thanks Sarge, sounds like fun all this pain

thanks Polski, good to know, don't think I'll be attempting any pr's in my weakened state anyway:frantic:
Actually someone told me once, that your grip comes from shoulders and traps, so Maybe this will help my grip a bit too, that would be nice.

You got it Kook.Also the grip statement is very true.

[Mr.Meat]

I got an appointment with an ART guy tomorrow. I'm thinking I'm gonna take it easier for a few weeks and focus on conditioning and loosing the last 10-5lbs.

I feel strong, but there is alot of pain and previous unhealed injuries holding me back.

I'm gonna try to get as many sessions in as possible since I have coverage now. Last year I went to one session with another ART guy but it was $80 per session and he wanted to see me 3 times a week for a few weeks.

[Killer]

Hey Kook,

Jon does ART. He will be able to answer any questions.

But, ART is not going to fix your problem. You dislocated your shoulder at some point - this means you stretched out your shoulder's ligaments/joint capsule. It will never be tight again on it's on as other's said.

Do you do any rehab type exercises for your rotator cuff, rhomboids, mid traps, serratus anterior? Strengthen those and you may be able to counter the laxity you have in your ligaments with stronger supporting muscles.

But, if you stretched it out good enough (or bad enough I should say) and it is falling out of the socket all the time (I know some atheltes who would wake up all the time with their shoulder out of the socket) then surgery is the option.

Until you do that, I would strengthen the supporting muscles and ice when it pops out.

Also try to avoid any shoulder abduction and external rotation (think of cocking back to throw a ball) as that is the classic positon that will pop your humeral head out to the front and dislocate.

[BodyGoals]

Thanks for the call out Killer...I do it on all my guys...Polski has had it done by me so has Iron God on Several, several , several occasions. With traditional massage the goal is relaxation and circulation, with ART the goal is tendon and muscle manipulation...

[kook]

Killer, thanks, I do lots of rehab with a mini band, rotator work and the like.
I understand surgery will be in my future, originally I dropped a 200lb beam straight down on the shoulder, and did not exactly do any kind of rehab, that was 4 years ago or so, and it has gotten much stronger since.
Also right now, I can put a 235 log overhead for reps, not exactly where I was before, but also not exactly far away either.
It popped out to the back, actually was using the safety squat bar, and it dropped almost straight down, the back (supraspinatus? i think) is what hurts, but also in the front head as well.

Bodygoals, maybe I have to make a trip to jersey in the future, maybe you can sort me out!

Made an appointment for tomorrow morning, I will press this afternoon, so It can heal for a week or so. Will update on how it goes.

[Polski Byk]

Killer, thanks, I do lots of rehab with a mini band, rotator work and the like.
I understand surgery will be in my future, originally I dropped a 200lb beam straight down on the shoulder, and did not exactly do any kind of rehab, that was 4 years ago or so, and it has gotten much stronger since.
Also right now, I can put a 235 log overhead for reps, not exactly where I was before, but also not exactly far away either.
It popped out to the back, actually was using the safety squat bar, and it dropped almost straight down, the back (supraspinatus? i think) is what hurts, but also in the front head as well.

Bodygoals, maybe I have to make a trip to jersey in the future, maybe you can sort me out!

Made an appointment for tomorrow morning, I will press this afternoon, so It can heal for a week or so. Will update on how it goes.

Come by anytime we would be glad to have ya:)

[BodyGoals]

I just worked on Polski's shoulder and pec yesterday, and I have to say although he said it wasn't painful, but the fact he released his bladder right there on the table told me otherwise.

[kook]

Come by anytime we would be glad to have ya:)
I'm thinking about possibly doing Jon's, and IG's show, i'll see what happens, Im not too far away in MA.

I just worked on Polski's shoulder and pec yesterday, and I have to say although he said it wasn't painful, but the fact he released his bladder right there on the table told me otherwise.

:lol: Jon, Mnk's post about going to see you about find imbalances and weaknesses peaks my curiosity, so may look into that in the future. Possibly if I go down to do your contest, but everything is in the air at moment.

[kook]

So I went today, not painful like everyone said it would be, but I have a high tolerance.

Right now it feels good and loose. Pressed last night, and this morning it hurt, but right now it feels real good, but of course time will tell.
Gave me some other stretches and things to work on.

There is some ROM issues with it, external rotation, right is to 90degrees, left to maybe 70
Not sure what to call it, but lifting arm straight out to side, right can go pretty high where the left a little less than level.

Will go again next week

[C. Smith]

not everyone said it was.... ;)

[BodyGoals]

I'm thinking about possibly doing Jon's, and IG's show, i'll see what happens, Im not too far away in MA.


:lol: Jon, Mnk's post about going to see you about find imbalances and weaknesses peaks my curiosity, so may look into that in the future. Possibly if I go down to do your contest, but everything is in the air at moment.

If you have the time to come in, I have the time to fix you!

[kook]

not everyone said it was.... ;)
This week, he found and worked on some spots that I have to admit, were quite painful, So now I understand where that talk comes from.:tongue2:


Anyways a little update.
Going on 5 treatments, once a week. Every week things are getting better, more stable and stronger.
When I first went there, could not put my left hand behind my back, very painful. Worked on stretching it with a towel, pulling with the other hand. now I can put it back there on its own, with decent ROM, and no pain.

Internal Rotation has greatly Improved and again no pain.

Sorry I don't know all the terminology, but arm extended out to side, started with very poor ROM, maybe 75degrees, so not even close to Level. now it goes just past level, then the pain starts.

External Rotation, almost no improvement, Althought he seemed to find the cause of this today, and with the stretches he gave, hope this will get better, If anyone has suggestions to help this out, I would appreciate it.(the pain was more on the side of the arm between bicep/tricep holding back the movement and not pain in the shoulder)

And again sorry about not knowing the terminology, but he steadies my arm on his shoulder and tries to press down on the shoulder, not much movement( He said the humeral head should move down to allow the arm to be raised into the air) So with the bad one, not much movement and lots of pain, with good one there is no comparison.