Consensus Statement on Age of Initiation of Anabolic Use

[archive_Bjaarki]

REVISED DRAFT 11-13-02

PLEASE POST COMMENTS AT BOTTOM OF THREAD

Consensus Statement on Age of Initiation of Anabolic Use

Steroidal and nonsteroidal anabolics promote strength gain, muscle synthesis, and increased metabolic capacity. Their responsible, moderate use improves athletic performance, cosmetic appearance, and perceived social opportunity and self-esteem. However, anabolics achieve their effects by perturbing the human endocrine system, a complex feedback mechanism of glands and organs that are, in healthy and youthful persons, in an exquisite state of natural balance. Compounds like anabolic steroids that alter this balance are appropriate for use only by mature, well-trained athletes who understand these drugs, their risks and their benefits. Except in the case of prospective users of clear promise for national or international ranking in a sport, realistically hopeful for the kinds of benefits such ranking confers, the following should be characteristic of anyone, of any age, prior to the addition of anabolic steroids to a training regime:


1. PHYSICAL MATURITY. Anabolics can, through either direct or indirect effects, cause premature closure of the epiphyseal plates (“growth plates”) at the end of bone, an irreversible effect that may result in permanently shorter stature than the athlete would otherwise achieve. Therefore, the athlete should have reached full physical stature and maturity of the skeleton before contemplating anabolic use. In most cases, full stature is not reached until the very late teens and, in many cases, development of both long skeletal bones and joint assemblies (hips and shoulders) continues into the early 20's, development of the larynx (“voicebox”) into the mid-20’s.


2. SIGNIFICANT MATURE MUSCULARITY. Anabolics have poor effect, or transitory effect, on athletes in mediocre condition; in addition, their tendency to boost muscle strength ahead of the strength of supporting tendons and ligaments can lead to debilitating injury in athletes without substantial prior training. Therefore, the athlete should have accumulated a significant amount of mature muscle mass and tendon strength through a dedicated program of resistance training prior to beginning anabolic use. Recognizing that there is substantial individual variability in training efficiency and effects, a minimum of 3 years, perhaps as many as 7, of dedicated weight training is required to achieve this necessary physical foundation, on which anabolics can be used safely and to best effect.


3. THOROUGH KNOWLEDGE. Anabolics are not a substitute for proper technique or applied knowledge of the basics of exercise physiology. Therefore, the athlete considering the use of anabolics should have a very thorough and detailed knowledge of lifting technique, dietary practice, recuperative processes, and hormonal and nonhormonal supplementation. In particular, the athlete should have an excellent understanding of the uses, effects, and risk profiles of anabolics, and should be thoroughly conversant with the kinds of ancillary agents that minimize side-effects and speed post-cycle recovery. Recognizing that there is substantial individual variability in the pace at which this knowledge is acquired, at least a year of arduous study and reading is necessary to understand anabolics and post-cycle recovery, and at least 4 years of practice is required to establish the requisite knowledge base of lifting technique, recuperation, and diet.


4. PSYCHOLOGICAL MATURITY. The athlete should be socially and psychologically mature, firm enough in purpose, and balanced enough in approach, to understand not only how and when to initiate use of anabolics, but how and when to curtail or abandon use should that need arise. The athlete should be able to capably handle the demands of acquiring and self-administering a program of powerful drugs that can have marked effect on mood and disposition, doing so with minimal social and legal risk to both him/herself and his/her network of partners and collaborators.


The use of steroidal and nonsteroidal anabolics, except in cases of very unusual athletic promise, is unwise for persons who have not satisfied these prerequisites. While not a function of mere calendar age per se, it is unarguable that, on average, the likelihood that these conditions will have been met increases as the age of the prospective anabolic user increases.

For the reasons adduced above, the following statement of consensus opinion is made:


Allowing for substantial individual variability, and with the exception of cases of truly outstanding athletic promise, the athlete considering the use of anabolics should be socially mature, psychologically stable, and should have completed 4 to 7 years of dedicated training in strength/endurance athletics and study in lifting technique, dietary practices, recuperation skills and supplementation. In most cases, the athlete will have reached the age of 21 before these prerequisites are in place, recognizing that many athletes will not have achieved the necessary experience, physical maturity, and psychic balance until their mid-20's or even later.

[This message was edited by Bjaarki on 11-13-2002 at 08:24 AM.]

[Billy_Bathgate]

1)"The athlete should have reached full physical stature" - AGREED

"the use of drugs which directly or indirectly cause premature closure of the epiphyseal plates should be avoided" - AGREED

However...Myself, and this of course will vary in everyone, stopped growing heighth wise by the time I was 17. I started AS at 20. Every cycle I have done has included aromatising compounds which I think we are on agreement that these are what cause the closure of growth plates. Since I have started AS, I have grown approximately 1/2" taller.

Also, lets address the non-aromatising compounds. What about an underdeveloped person using something such as Anavar??

2) "The athlete should have reached, or nearly reached, his genetic potential for muscular development" - DISAGREE

"This takes many years of very dedicated training. It is difficult to conceive of an athlete who will have achieved this level of development much before his or her late 20's." - AGREE

What reason is there that one must be at their genetical potential? I know I was a good 20-30lbs shy of mine before I started. I cannot think of a reason not to besides it could be viewed as all most cheating when you compare it to those who have reached their full potential. But Im not doing this for comparison, I do it for myself.

3) AGREED to a point. Some can make great gains with the worste diet and the most terrible training. I AGREE that one SHOULD have this down, but I dont think it should be a "requirement" so to say. They will not get as much out of their gains as someone else and will waste alot of time and money. I could see how this could lead to abuse though and is a good point.

4) AGREE, not with just AS, but all drugs/medicines in general.



"Therefore, it is recommended that, in almost all instances, athletes should reach the age of 25 to 28 prior to contemplating the addition of anabolic steroids to their training regimes. " - COMPLETELY DISAGREE

I dont think it has anythign at all with how old you are. Everyone is different. Some people can mature physically and mentally to the point of where they are ready to take on AS at a much earlier age than others. In fact, I bet some people shouldnt be using AS till they are 40.

If these guidlines are based on maturaty, knowlege and understanding, muscular development, does it have anything to do with age at all??? I think not.

Now obviously there is even still limits. You wouldnt use AS if you were 12. I dont mean that. I do think that the age range could fall in the 16-25 range of when is right to start. This will differ even more if we go back to the non-aromatising or "safer" steroids.

Of the whole picture though, the average of everyone, I think the age range would fall somewhere around 25.

Personally, I started at 20 and I feel it was the perfect time for me. I however, felt I was much more advanced. From certain reasons, I was forced into a more independent childhood and had to mature mentally much faster just to keep up with myself. I have always been physically active either through lifting as a child or doing manual labor. I felt that although I was not at my genetic potenital, I had a good foundation down.

I also consider myself of high intellect. Having taken much chemistry and biology classes, being a personal trainer, studing different methods and techniques of weight lifting and nutrition, researching specifically on the endocrine system reguarding AS and in general, on top of preparing for med school most of my life, I have developed a very good understanding for the human body (which I by no means know it all, I know there are several of you that could put me under that table here).



Overall, I was ready, but someone else my exact age may not have been. Age is the incorrect measurment for the starting point.

PS..Im bout 22 now

[Fonz]

Sorry Bjaarki but one prob:

1. Comp. sports players

This group comprises a LARGE majority of AAS
users.

Just look at college sports.

The rationale is:

Why be natural if I can juice and be faster, stronger, more agressive etc... and flatten my opponents on the field.

Fonz

No Pain....No Gain.....No Spain

----Barcelona 1992

[archive_Bjaarki]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Except in the case of prospective users of
clear promise for national or international ranking in a sport, realistically hopeful for the kinds of benefits such ranking confers, the following should be characteristic of anyone ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Fonz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bjaarki:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Except in the case of prospective users of
clear promise for national or international ranking in a sport, realistically hopeful for the kinds of benefits such ranking confers, the following should be characteristic of anyone ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clear promise?

Define it.

A guy may be inclined to use AAS just to make a team.

That doesn't exactly show clear promise.

Fonz

No Pain....No Gain.....No Spain

----Barcelona 1992

[archive_Bjaarki]

Billy, I appreciate your points, and I agree that there is a lot of variability. There is language like that in the CS as currently drafted. You and I have corresponded by email and phone, and I agree that you have all the personal characteristics you describe.

I want to take strong exception, though, to your contention that the qualities I mentioned - full physical stature, mature muscularity, knowledge of training, and social maturity - have NOTHING to do with age, therefore age should not be the standard. That is just ludicrous. All of those characteristics are pretty highly correlated with age. Not perfectly correlated, but highly correlated, because they all have to do with physical and social maturation processes, and maturation is just another way of describing how an organism ages.

So, of course age has to be consideration here. I really think this idea that "age has nothing to do with it" ought to be taken off the table right away. It's a red herring. And it will prevent us from pulling the trigger on this thing, as uncomfortable as that might be, and as unpopular as it might be with some members.

Bjaarki

[archive_Bjaarki]

I can't define it, Fonz. I don't think I have to, though. Not all terms need definition, some can be left to the individual interpreter.

Let me turn the question around on you. Do you think gear use by a very young guy who has none of the qualities I listed is justified merely because he wants to "make the team?" I personally think he would be making a mistake to start using anabolics when that's all he has going for him. I don't think his use would reflect well on me, you, or most other responsible users.

But ... I've said enough here, and would like to butt out if I may and see what other guys have to say. Sorry if I've been too intrusive. I'll try to butt back in only when something comes up that I really have to take issue with

[Billy_Bathgate]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bjaarki:
Billy, I appreciate your points, and I agree that there is a lot of variability. There is language like that in the CS as currently drafted. You and I have corresponded by email and phone, and I agree that you have all the personal characteristics you describe.

I want to take strong exception, though, to your contention that the qualities I mentioned - full physical stature, mature muscularity, knowledge of training, and social maturity - have NOTHING to do with age, therefore age should not be the standard. That is just ludicrous. All of those characteristics are pretty highly correlated with age. Not perfectly correlated, but highly correlated, because they all have to do with physical and social maturation processes, and maturation is just another way of describing how an organism ages.

So, of course age has to be consideration here. I really think this idea that "age has nothing to do with it" ought to be taken off the table right away. It's a red herring. And it will prevent us from pulling the trigger on this thing, as uncomfortable as that might be, and as unpopular as it might be with some members.

Bjaarki<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the compliment.

Actually, you worded what I was trying to say much much better. "All of those characteristics are pretty highly correlated with age. Not perfectly correlated, but highly correlated, because they all have to do with physical and social maturation processes, and maturation is just another way of describing how an organism ages."

Is actually more of what I meant. Yes they are very correlated, and like anything there are outliers. Age may be the most convient method to measure this starting point, however what I was trying to say was that its not the actual age number, its the qualities that you described that should define it. I think that would give a much more accurate description of when the time is right to start AS usage, instead of saying you have to be XX years old.

I cant seem to word what Im thinking here...

[archive_Dancer]

you got wayyyyyy to much time on youe hands.

Besides this isnt going to do anything productive for anyone.

First I learned to forgive myself, then I told myself do whatever you want it's fine with me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[archive_Flash]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Except in the case of prospective users of clear promise for national or international ranking in a sport, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

May I put clarity to this?

Athletes that show clear promise

top regional athletes who only need that extra 1% to get them from good to elite. For example your the best 100meter sprinter in your region(not just school or city), and your times are within -10% of top olympians. At this point judicious use of anabolics can be justified.

[archive_Dancer]

I agree with B that we are all at some point on our journey through life, however we are for the most part at diff points on that journey.

Pure vanity my brother is my motivation and most others on this board and and others have the same narcissistic drive.

We all share certain character traits that pushes us to do what we do and quite honestly I dont think our predispositioned traits can be reasoned with.
.

First I learned to forgive myself, then I told myself do whatever you want it's fine with me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[harddtime]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dancer:


Besides this isnt going to do anything productive for anyone.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. I'm turning 21 this month and did my first cycle when i was 19. Do I regret it? NO! Am i an athlete? probably not in the sense your talking about it. Why did i do it? to look better at THIS age, not when 28. At 28 i hope i'll be married and won't need to do this (other then maybe hormone replacement a little later on, no cycles then). I do it to look good now, to compete in clubs today and not in 8 years when i'll be done with that scene. Anyone who's been to NYC/Jersey clubs you know what i'm talking about. IMO post people do it to look better NOW, and yes they do use steroids as a short cut to get there. Having any kind of consensus statement won't do any good in preventing anyone from doing steroids. My HS was teaching us their consensus statement on sex "your not ready for sex untill your ready for a family" Yea, ok, that worked.

I think your ready to use steroids once you got the lifting,diet and enough knowledge on steroids to weigh out the pros and cons no matter what age you are. If you believe the pros weigh out the cons for you at 18 for things like height and everything else mentioned then why not do it? Main things is just know what the hell your getting yourself into before you get into it, so you don't sit back and be like "oh shit, i wish i knew that back then".

- harddtime

[archive_macrophage69alpha]

why absolutes?

biochemical individuation precludes this...

psychological individuation obliterates it...


and yet...

one might say social order demands it... though perhaps more accurately it is truly the mechanics of social control that necessitates it.


babble... babble.. rant.. rant..

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

MP

[archive_45goingon20]

Okay, I agree with B. Mid to late 20's. But then again I'm old, and started AS later in life, so my opinion may be prejudiced somewhat.

I believe we must be mentally mature to handle the responsibilities and consequences of AS use.
Some will argue that age has nothing to do with mental maturity. That just by experiencing things early on will build maturity. I agree somewhat with this reasoning. But the time thing, or the duration of time spent on this earth is what determines things like maturity, wisdom, and knowledge. You can't just take a 20 year old, teach him everything there is to know about life, and he is now mentally mature. It's a time thing. If you take a 28 year old, and teach him everything there is to know about life, he will be more mentally mature just because he has lived 8 more years than the 20 year old. You can't just learn maturity. It is based on time and life expreriences. Hence the older we get, the more wisdom we aquire. You have got to put in your time. Does this make sense to anyone.

45

[archive_Ulter]

One of the reasons we were to have these CS's done on the private forum was to keep it from getting heated when particular members or groups of members would feel singled out. And that's, of course, what is happening.
You can't ask a person 21 if 21 is old enough to use AS. But that also applies to those 18, 17, 16, 15 and so on. If we asked a group of 17 year olds what the legal age to purchase/consume alcohol should be, guess what they'll say. We'd get similar results from 14-15 year olds if we asked them what age people should be allowed to start driving.
The purpose here is not, or at least should not be, to exclude anyone by telling them "hey we don't think you're old enough to...". It is to make a statement based on what we've learned in life about using AS. I am not referring to top athletes competing for scholarships or money since rules are bent for them anyways. At least in Michigan. (Sorry, cheap shot at M). AS levels the field in this case and we aren't taking that issue up here.
What I have learned, and want to say, is that if a person has not trained for several years before they start AS then it's a mistake. And I say that because they are likely to be disappointed with their results at any age if they begin building without a foundation. The results will "look" good for a few months but then in all likelihood the results will begin to disappear. If a person doesn't have a great deal of mature mass to add to when using AS then they can't possibly expect that they will get thick gains that will stay with them.
So my opinion is that an "age" may not be the best way to determine the right time to begin. It has more to do with how much time, and to me it's at least 4 years, you have put in the gym with a serious program.

[SteelPreacher]

Originally posted by Ulter <BLOCKQUOTE class="**-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It has more to do with how much time, and to me it's at least 4 years, you have put in the gym with a serious program. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree fully with that. A BB in my gym told me that same thing and Im glad I waited until I had been training that long before I touched AS and I'm 24 right now so this makes me (as far as the cs goes so far) the poster boy. My results were dramatic and for the most part stayed with me. I havent been able to train lately like i want to but shortly i should be back full speed. I'll have a nice course to do for december so I would consider that moderate usage. I think u were talking about me in that CS Bjaarkie. (Everyone needs to be like SP! lol jk)


Don't be fooled by the muscles that I got, I'm still, I'm still Preacher from the block! I used to have a little now I have a lot, but I still know where I came from! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[global]

Ulter said:
The purpose here is not, or at least should not be, to exclude anyone by telling them "hey we don't think you're old enough to...". It is to make a statement based on what we've learned in life about using AS.
-------------------------------------------------

I think Ulter is exactly right, perhaps we should try to exclude all value judgements from the Consensus Statements and include only the objective knowledge which we have learned.

Saying "If you start AS at X age it will not give you as good results as waiting till Y age" is in my opinion sufficient and better than giving any opinion as to whether we think people should start at X age. Just give the information and then let people make up their own minds.

Also how helpful is it to be talking about sportspeople as opposed to people taking AS purely for cosmetic reasons? I only raise this for people to give their opinions, but I suspect most people here take for appearance.


global@elitefitness.com

[archive_Ulter]

I am not suggesting that athletes be excluded from participating in the discussion I am saying the discussion should exclude athletes whose lives/future depend on using AS. Those people have to make decisions that are special to their own circumstances and we can't possibly include every situation in this discussion. This discussion is directed at amateur athletes and body builders.

[archive_Bjaarki]

With only one exception (45), maybe two (SP, I can't tell exactly), I'm hearing very little interest in putting a specific age range into the CS.

It's looking like people want guys who consider using gear to have some experience under their belts, but they want to define experience as years of training - Ulter suggests 4 years - rather than chronological age. I think that's a mistake, but though there may be some more discussion of this, group consensus seems to be at variance with my view, and right now we seem to be heading toward a CS that suggests that candidates for AAS use should have put a certain amount of time in at the gym, not be a certain minimum age.

So, could we have some more discussion of how much time is suggested, how much experience a person should have? I remember Mr. Nobody saying awhile back that he thinks guys should lift for 10 years minimum before starting gear. I hope I'm not misrepresenting you, Mr. N. That's a lot more than Ulter's 4 years. What do the rest of you think?

BTW, it would be great to get some more of the Mods and more senior members coming in on this thread. I want to hear from Dman, E2, Killer, GymRat, as well as GotWood and the other vets.

Bjaarki

[archive_macrophage69alpha]

from a health standpoint?
from a social standpoint?
from a cosmetic standpoint?
from a competitive standpoint?
from a legal standpoint?
from a psychological standpoint?
from a user standpoint?
from a parents standpoint?
etc
etc

looking for #'s narrow and specify your criterion and focus [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

MP