CONTEST PREP PROGRESS

[Pharm Animal]

here is a sample diet and training schedule, similar to what i used last time, maybe 3-8 weeks out. it was very simple, but extremely hard dieting

cardio

#1
eggwhites w/ 2 yolks
oats

#2
chicken breast
small sweet potato

#3
tuna salad:
tuna
as much lettuce as i wanted
pepper and balsalmic vinegar (no calorie)

#4
repeat #2

training session

#5
repeat #2

#6
steak
broccoli

#7
repeat #2

#8
egg whites

the protein was set at 400 grams a day and carbs fluctuated between 50 and 250 grams a day. i used a carb cycling diet, 2-3 low days, and 1-2 high days, going by feel the whole time. fats were minimized, execpt for the 2 yolks in the first meal; they were a mainstay until the last week

my post workout meal always contained a small sweet potato, even on low carb days. water was at least 2 gallons a day. i'ma big water believer, and i truly believe it will assist you in getting leaner. the body must process water, so just drinking water takes up calories and raises your BMR, albeit slightly

take care,
PA

[Pharm Animal]

i exclude all dairy the minute i decide to do a precontest diet. there is something wrong with those foods when trying to get lean. it makes shedding fat harder for some reason...why, i don't know. maybe it has something to do with milk being a food product for growing infants....there may be many undiscovered things that could be in dairy products that prevent lipolysis....think about it:

if babies were supposed to get leaner from the time they come out of the womb till they are weaned off of milk, why do all of them get FATTER and BIGGER after birth? milk is designed my mother nature to be anabolic for infants....because we all know that weight gain from the time of birth to the point in which a child comes off of milk is critical for the baby's health.

in a nutshell, that's why i don't consume dairy products during contest prep diets.

take care,
PA

[Decaman]

Excellent, simple and CLEAN! I agree dairy is a complete no no, whatever your reasoning is. I have always maintained a strong stance against it while trying to shed as much fat as possible, it promotes a smoother look to he body. Cycling carbohydrates can be very effective and is necessary if you will be going low fat which this particular diet is. Some will be able to use whey shakes up to the very end and do much better on all whole food, some wont, again you will just have to test the waters. This is a great post, for once it isn't all about the drugs.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[Decaman]

Here is something i might use- again I am not a competitive bodybuilder, but I have gotten down to 6% or even slightly below- it is no easy feat, still however i lack the necessary experience of getting on a stage and being completely evaluated and obviously i would make the necessary adjustments the last few weeks or week before the show.

meal 1-
10 whites 2 yolks( with trivial amount diced peppers and onions)
1/2 cup of oats( some protein powder sprinkled on top especially on cardio days)

meal 2-
44 grams 100%whey
1/2 cup of brown rice or oats
1 tablespoon flax or 2 tablespoons natural peanut butter

meal 3 6-8 ounces chicken breast or 1 1/2 cans of lo sodium tuna rinsed
small yam
1 cup of broccoli ( i dont seem to have any trouble with green veggies)

meal 4
44 grams of 100% whey
1 tablespoon flax or 2 tablespoons natural peanut butter

training

meal 5 post workout

44 grams of whey
50-70 grams of simple sugars( although this looks like it may be a bad idea after talking with you guys)

meal 6
6-8 ounces fish(tuna steak, flounder, etc)or 6 ounces lean red meat( eye round london broil)
1 cup of broccoli
( i dont like to take in carbs here because i eat dinner close to 9 o clock some nights and feel it is too late)

meal 7
12 egg whites or 25 grams whey
1 tablespoon flax or
2 tablespoons natural peanut butter
( more likely the flax)

My protein is close to 325 grams , but my fat is also alot higher than p- animals on this diet. Carbs remain around 150-160, a carb up day of double that with a reduction in fat and protein can be used when the body tells you it needs it. I will drink at least 1 1/2 gallons of water a day. I will also use a multi vitamin( goes without saying)but while dieting i will have it twice once at breakfast and once at lunch) I also will supp with glutamine. One thing i have been meaning to add is anti- oxidants through out the day , but i havent yet. Seeing as i am not competing i may have sugar free jello once in awhile for sanity heh heh.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[This message was edited by Decaman on 04-14-2001 at 01:18 AM.]

[This message was edited by Decaman on 04-14-2001 at 01:20 AM.]

[Pharm Animal]

this definately is a great post. this is what separates this board from that other one....this topic would have been archived or deleted on elitefitness a long time ago!

keep this post rolling, guys

take care,
PA

[ontariowrestler]

Well alot of studies have been done on recovery post workout. Most of them concentrated on what was the best amount of simple carbs to take. This was tunnelvision. Most researchers looked at insulin's role in lowering blood sugar as the way to spike insulin, they did not look at it's other role of transporting amino acids into muscle cells. Yes, you can spike your insulin with high quality protein. How high is unknown, as the only foods tested were fish and beef and they are comparable to Honeysmacks, whole grain bread or popcorn. I would think something as highly processed and biologically available as whey protein would cause a much higher spike than fish.

One important step to stop muscle catabolism is getting amino acids to the muscles to build cellular catalysts. Their rate of depletion is directly related to the amount and duration of cellular work performed. If catalysts are depleted, replenishment takes precedence over everything, and breakdown of muscle tissue occurs to provide the necessary amino acids.

The other important step is having enough glycogen stores to prevent gluconeogenesis. I would expect though, that on a high protein, low carb diet, energy would be provided from unused proteins being deaminated. As long as you are not doing marathon workouts, and high impact cardio, you should be ok. If you have your protein shake after working out, before cardio, you are providing the amino acids necessary to quickly rebuild catalysts and the low impact cardio will burn fatty acids, leaving glycerol available to be taken up by the muscles as glycogen. This process will continue after cardio, as I said before, I think 2/3 of the energy used at rest is from fatty acids.

For information, milk products may be somewhat low on the glycemic index, but are high on the insulin index.

I eat whole grain bread. The important thing is to find one that uses the whole grain, 99% don't. Dempster's makes a good whole grain bread. Country Harvest claims to make oat bran bread, but the first ingredient listed is enriched white flour.

I am curious if anyone has tried calorie cycling to keep their BMR from dropping while dieting.

[Pharm Animal]

good info OW....nice to see you're still hangin' around!

take care,
PA

[Decaman]

It is good info, i am not sure i grasp it all though. What are we saying is ideal for postworkout, especially for the dieting bodybuilder. Are the simple sugars detrimental in anyway? I've decided to stick with them for now. Put up the revised diet drexx so we can take a look at it



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[archive_TonyDelk]

Sure you can take simple sugars after your training session provided you are already somewhat depleted and are using glucose disposal agents to help with insulin sensitivity and glycogen supercompensation.

Try Alpha Lipoic Acid at about 600mgs, Arginine at 2gms, 1gm of Taurine and maybe some Creatine and Magnesium thrown in. Take them with your post workout shake and make sure your carb source is liquid.

You'll be in business.

TD

[Pharm Animal]

i'd advise against post workout simple sugars 6-8 weeks prior to a show to the contest date. i simply eliminate anything that may cause lipolysis inhibition. if you need carbs after a workout, what's wrong with a slow release low GI food like sweet potatoes? the last thing you need is a bunch of simple sugars flooding your bloodstream while you're trying to diet away your fat stores. post workout carbs are VERY necessary to a bodybuilder trying to grow the quickest....but at 6 weeks out, you're main concern is trying to shed as much fat as possible, and just maintain muscle mass.

i feel that extra carbs, no matter when you get them, interfere with lipolysis.

take care,
PA

[Fonz]

Why not incorporate a low-dosage DNP cycle
into your pre-contest diet to make up for
lost time?
Also, both PA and Tony Delk are correct in some
way. ALA is a VERY, VERY good supplement
to take to increase glucose up-take into the
muscles. It eliminates the need for
a high GI-carb(dextrose), in order to raise insulin levels
to shuttle nutrients into the muscle-cells post
workout. 600-1000mg/day would be optimum.
(taken with meals).

Godspeed

[Decaman]

P.A. you point is well taken, it doesnt seem to be interfering with my progress, then again i am don't need to go where he is going. But for drexx 6-8 ounces of sweet potatoes would be better than dextrose I would agree. Fonz's idea is a good one also, i don't have any experience with dnp, but from what i hear it works the quickest.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[DREXX]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know I have been reading all your replies. They all contain some very useful info.

I don't post much lately because I am very busy but I do take the time to read your well thought out replies.

This week I am 188.5lbs and 8.73% bodyfat so it is going down. It went down 0.92% this week which is nice [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I am 7 weeks out and have a ton of work to do. I still have about 11.15lbs of Fat to lose.

I will post my new diet latter on after training.

I just came back from the grocery store and bought some brown rice and sweet potatoes.

I also bought some whole wheat pasta. Is that any good or should I stay away from that as well?

Thanks again guys!!!

If it's not hard it's not worth doing...

[archive_Iron God]

NO wheat anything.

Heres your carb menu

1 Yams
2 Brown Rice
3 Oatmeal

Enjoy [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

IG

[Fukkenshredded]

I agree with the sweet potatoes and brown rice, but I have never liked what oatmeal did to me. It always seems to make me smoother looking. Maybe all that water? I just use sweet potatoes all the way when ripping out. Another thing you might want to look into is vanadyl sulfate. In larger doses it seems to assist vascularity and hardness. Glucophage can be utilized as a dispersal agent if you must have something that drastic, but I am not a big fan of that approach. A simpler addition to your sugars is cinnamon. Also, oleoresin of capsicum, which is found in hot peppers, works. Try serranos if you can handle them. I eat them on just about everything because I like the taste. As you know, protien is better absorbed in the presence of sugar, and I think there is too much paranoia about carbs in general. Total calories is the primary issue when looking for fat loss. Everything else is a way to fool the body's perception of caloric intake. Even chitosan has its place in such an approach...it can assist the dieter in handling the hunger.

[ontariowrestler]

Why/how is protein better absorbed in the presence of sugar?

[archive_TonyDelk]

PA, glycogen resynthase is highest during two times.

A)Right after a taxing glycogen depleting workout.
B)in an already somewhat glycogen depleted state.

If you shuttle carbs that are "quickest" absorbed(simple sugars) by the muscles that are directly needing, there is no risk of inhibiting lipolysis. Of course too much will make you lipogenic and not lipolytic, but this is more in time intervals and not amounts(carbs) immediately post workout.

I don't have the papers in front of me, but I have seen research where lipolysis is actually potentiated by carbohydrates when metabolism is already lowered(such as in a carb/insulin depleted state). The reason for this being that the body increases metabolic rate to oxidate the carbs/sugar because it truly doesn't understand what to do with them not recognizing them as it's primary fuel substrate.

I guess in a nutshell when you're dieting and your body is functioning off of higher protein, EFA's and small amounts of low glycemic carbs it gets greatly efficient at burning fat as it's primary fuel source. Ketones or not, it usually will get enough sugar from Protein(glucogeonesis)and the small amounts of carbs to assist the organs that need glucose for fuel. In the presence of higher amounts of glucose it senses the excess as unneeded and quickly acts to "burn" them off, thereby increasing BMR short term.

Enough biochem today. You definitely can use simple sugars immediately post workout(liquid)in a dieting state. Just make sure you don't overconsume, and that you are already somewhat depleted beforehand. Makes a great case for shuffling days of low and no carbs between workouts.

TD

[Decaman]

Ahhhh, but the question is which is better, the simple sugars or the sweet potato for instance. ANd what amount gram wise. I mean 50 sounds like a good number not to low not too high. This again is another reaosn I don't take in carbs pre workout, i will only take in protein and fat(flax) because i will take them in post workout.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[archive_TonyDelk]

You're body recognizes a carb as a carb especially in a depleted situation. It is going to be stored as glycogen regardless of how quickly it burns.

Essentially if your body is an extremely depleted state(glycogen wise)the quicker the carbs can be absorbed/utilized the more storage you will have without spillage.(ie eating too many carbs and them being converted to triglyceride--lipogenesis)

I have experimented with 150gms of carbs(both high GI and low GI) postworkout with ample glucose disposal agents and have not been effected either way.

Your body will become very adept at storing the extra carbs as glycogen for needed future workouts. It will also help to prevent that dry/flat/dehydrated look you get in your bigger muscles when dieting.(pecs, bicep peak and shoulder girdle area). Trust me, this is a welcome boost psychologically speaking when dieting and losing bodyweight.

TD

[Decaman]

Good info T.D., 150 post workout is a bit much in my opinion, if it worked for you thats a bonus for sure, i know my body wouldnt work for me. Matter of fact thats my daily intake at this point.



DECA- IT'S WHATS FOR DINNER!

[archive_TonyDelk]

Trace carbs with the rest of your meals that day. Meaning if you're eating low GI carbs like lettuce, green beans, broccoli etc...I'd be willing to bet your body would let you get away with it.

Now if you're eating brown rice, yams etc during the day with your meals, then I'd say 150 is a bit much as well. Cycling your carbs IMO is best. Meaning if your going to eat carbs with your meals, do that one day and the next don't. Keep your metabolism guessing.

TD