EPO for post cycle gains keeper, who has tried it?????

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

got interested for off cycle addition. I have done limited research and would like to know first hand experience, dosages, price and availability?
BTW there is an intersting article on off cycle drugs in current AE webzine

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only.

[This message was edited by Mr. Nobody on 03-20-2001 at 09:27 AM.]

[Deja_Voodoo]

EPO is VERY expensive unless you know someone who can steal it and sell it to you. As far as side effects go-most are associated with increased blood viscosity while the body is in a dehydrated state. Pass on it.

Deja_Voodoo: Contributing to the decay of the moral fabric of america since 1971.
"A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is a man who hopes they are" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Fukkenshredded]

Exactly. Try something else.

[WarLobo]

They make it 10 miles from me. And I'll NEVER use it.

LAte

Lobo

[Fonz]

EPO increases the production of red
blood cells dramatically, leading to a
huge rise in Hematocrit.(The blood is
thickened). It is the MOST EXPENSIVE
of all meds(even IGF-1).
You'd have to run some meds that increase
the "slickness" of red blood cells at the
same time. Just too many things can
go wrong while on EPO. It basically
comes down to Risk Vs Reward. Unless
you're a world-class endurance athlete
forget about it.

Godspeed

[Animal]

EPO is no restricted or controlled and while it's a prescription drug, they can't really stop it even they do see it come through customs with the new laws. IN fact, the people I know have NEVER had an EPO order stopped, eVER!

20, 000 IU's will cost you around 175-200 nowadays. If you get it in 4000 iu lots, that's about 50-80 for those.

Let's look at the lack of intelligenc in the other posts when comparing cost. You need 8000iu to 10,000 per week for 2 weeks and the affects come on in 2-3 weeks and last for MONTHS! So if you spent 200 for 20,000 and it lasted 4 mos, that's how much per week? It can actually last more like 6mos, but we'll be conservative and even drop the first 3 weeks because you get no affects at the time.

That gives us 13 weeks and 200 spent which is a whopping $15/week. If we went to 6 mos that adds 8 more weeks to 21 which is $9.50/week.

Now compare that to what you would spend on hGH or IGF-1 which is likely $100/week. Take IGF if you get it for 1mg/200. Dosing it 80-100mcg/day means you are out of that 1mg in 10 days! $200 bucks in 10 days people! Now for hGH if it's even real nowadays, is 350 - 500 for 126 iu or so and if you take 4iu a day you get 31 days use. That's 11 bucks a day and I doubt hardly anybody uses only 4iu.

As for the affects, I'm not even going to get into that, but one of the most important things that AS do is raise your hematocrit level! HgH does NOT work on it's own because while it increases protein synthesis, it DOES NOT RAISE hematocrit level like AS!

Educate yourself before you spout off drivel about which you know nothing when people are trying to learn.

Anarchy in the USA!

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

Erythropoietin (EPO) is a protein hormone secreted by the kidneys and liver that stimulates red blood cell production (erythropoiesis). Red blood cells carry oxygen to the tissues of the body and so obviously are vital to maximal health and athletic performance.

When people take anabolic steroids, particularly some oral ones such as Anadrol®, erythropoiesis is stimulated. The result is an increase in the proportion of blood cells in the blood, also known as the hematocrit. This increase in the hematocrit is partially responsible for the energizing and recovery benefits of steroids. It may also contribute to the blood volume and vascularizing effects of anabolics.

When you go off anabolics, the increase in hematocrit gradually subsides and you return to pre-cycle lower levels (or below). This effect will take its toll on your physical condition and ability to train at high intensity. Therefore, administration of exogenous EPO can have obvious benefits in the steroid withdrawing athlete.

In addition to its effect in increasing hematocrit, there is some evidence that EPO has direct anabolic effects. It has been shown in rat studies to substantially increase weight gain and injury repair after surgery. Furthermore, EPO receptors are present on myoblasts (immature muscle cell progenitors) and may have a potential in muscle development and repair.

EPO is sold in recombinant form (rhEPO) for injection. One popular form is called Epogen®, and it is made for subcutaneous usage. A safe or starting dosage is usually 20 i.u. per kilogram bodyweight, 3 times/week. After two or three weeks, a maintanence dose of 20 iu/kg BW can be taken once a week. One should wait about two weeks after ceasing steroids to commence EPO therapy to avoid any excessive increases in hematocrit which can be quite dangerous. It is also very advisable to have periodic blood tests that include a hematocrit assay while taking EPO just to be safe. Interestingly, I think that this test is automatically done for free everytime you donate blood, and all you need to do is ask the nurse what your hematocrit is reading (just out of curiosity of course).

taken from Anabolic Extreme's current issue

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only.

[Fonz]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record Animal,
I already knew steroids raised hematocrit, but. take
too much EPO and your hematocrit would be raised
to the point where your blood platelets would begin to
coagulate inside your arteries leading to a blockage.
No steroid COMES CLOSE to rasing somebodies
hematocrit like EPO does. Anadrol, which was
developed for the sole purpose of
treating anemics and increase their red-blood
cells PALES in comparison.
Constant blood test are a must while taking EPO.
You can say what you will, but out of all the
"enhancing" meds out there EPO IS BY FAR THE
MOST DANGEROUS.

Godspeed

[tyrant]

Anyone else notice the recent TV ad campaign for the EPO product marketed to the cancer treatment population? What will those pharmacutical industry consumer division types think up next?How about a non surgical physical augmentation system of hormonal Manipulation? I wonder if the "doping" practice of RBC building using a transfusion of your own blood wouldnt be even better than EPO.

[Fukkenshredded]

Other factors thus far ignored...the indirect impact of altered hdl/ldl levels in relation to elevated hematocrit, the associated dehydration that accompanies excessive oxygenation internally and extended physical output for ever increasing periods of time, the ability of an artery to expand in direct correlation to the amount and viscosity of the blood flowing through it...

Not drivel. No sir. Fuck with this stuff and watch what happens when you cut yourself. You will ooze red snot that seems immediately coagulated. Hematocrit levels of above 50 are somewhat common among users of AS. EPO can get you above that in a hurry, and that is Bad with that capitol B. You might want to check out the English Journal of Medicine and cross reference the deaths of several endurance atheletes...most notably bicyclers. Just read up on that and see if we're spouting twaddle here, and if we are, well then...sorry to have disturbed you.

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

guys,
why so much resistence to new substances. Those bicyclers you all are refering to, had became severly dehydrated, along with gross overuse of said substance. How about insulin and DNP? I consider them just as risky. If you go slowly and take all precautions and only use it responsibly after your hormone therapy, why not give it a try.

Disclaimer:
Mr. Nobody is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only.

[Animal]

Mr Nobody put up a wonderful post and most ignored it. Notice that he said it had anabolic affects, the next important thing is that it enables the body to burn MORE OXYGEN? Anybody have a clue as to what that means? HIGHER METABOLISM and more calories burned. Furthermore there are extensive studies done with oxygen chamber and giving post surgery patients pure oxygen because it improves healing dramatically and cuts any infection rates to nearly zero.

For the others. (anything you got to say about the above and what mr nobody said?)

I HAVE HAD EXTENSIVE BLOOD TESTS BOTH OFF AND ON EPO AND AS. I am not in this because I have nothing better to do! I even own a $1000 hematocrit machine just for this purpose! YOUR Comments on what AS do compared to EPO and how they work together or separately are absolutely ridiculous and unfounded.

EPO raises hematocrit and that raises cholesterol?
Now where did that come from? Not that higher cholesterol from an AS cycle or even if it did happen with EPO even means a crap as to heart health! It's genetic and you are gonna get or you aren't so something about EPO raising cholesterol is irrelevant at best.

AS can raise your hematocrit to about 50-54 or so and you will know it because your Bp will be going up and you will be getting headaches. Nobody is dying from that level are they? Not only from my own experience, but I worked with a client whose doctor freaked out when he was on anadrol and hgh and he was at 54 and they actually bled him because they thought he had a blood disease. Of course I told him all this was from the AS, but he listened to the doctors at first. Then he quit the doctor and just stayed off and in 4 mos his hematocrit returned to normal!

8-10000iu/week for 2 weeks will raise your hematocrit to 50 or so, so now that its epo doing it you are going to die?

When you get your hemat to around 60 and then you do 4 to 8hr bike races at 25mph averages is when the users died, dummy! People have not died in running, cycling, or triathalons or swimming in years because they know how to fix that high of a level with hGH, glycerol, blood voluminizers, and blood thinners (aspirin works nicely, too) if they want to be that high.

There is no way that somebddy in a gym for 2 hours is gonna get so dehydrated that they die from a level of 50 or they'd be dead already as would the competitors in the worlds strongest man contests in those hot climates.

So people, please get off your high horse of uneducated scare tactics when you know absolutely nothing about the science behind what you are talking about!

Epo can decrease recovery time, decrease sickness rates, increase healing rates and increase metabolism

Anarchy in the USA!

[Fukkenshredded]

I did not say that elevating hematocrit also elevates cholesterol. Read it again. The indirect impact on the ratio....etc, etc. Not everybody tests their hematocrit in their homes. In fact, I would guess that the vast majority of users just shoot the gear and feel fine, so they tell themselves that they will get a blood test but don't even do that unless they suspect a problem. By itself, a hematocrit of 50-54 won't kill you. Sort of like the elevated blood pressure from AS...alone, it is temporary and won't kill you. But there are other incidental results from steroid use in general that don't always dissipate after two weeks off. The continuous fluctuation of blood viscosity and volume should be considered because of the fact that as we age, our body's cardiopulminary system loses its capacity to to adapt to changes of that nature as quickly as when we are young. I think it is an issue of preparation, really. Since I am not an expert on any of it, I am not prepared to say that the approach is unilaterally dangerous. However, in my experience the percentage of users who actually genuinely test themselves and monitor themselves is fairly small. A blood test once a year doesn't count in my book. Maybe its because I gave myself hepatitis with winstrol. Perhaps this experience tainted my whole outlook on steroid use in general. It just seems that the practical real world result of self EPO administration among the general steroid user population would be a disproportionate number of 'accidents'. Maybe this says more about my attitude toward those who comprise the community at large than it does anything else.

I mean, what's wrong with a couple of bananas and a few Lasix, after all?

[Animal]

I thought you inferred that EPO up meant cholesterol up.

Nevertheless, it is very easy to monitor you hematocrit levels WITHOUT a machine!

You monitor you BP! That's how I did it before I got to the doctor and got a machine because i wanted to test the theory. When you Bp gets to 150 or so, you know that your hemat is around 50.

From what I have seen I also believe that there is diminishing returns so if 20000 iu over 2 weeks raised you to 50, doubling to 40,000iu over 2 weeks would NOT get you to 60

Anarchy in the USA!