ALTERED STATES

[archive_Bjaarki]

Brothers:

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has used a cycle of anabolic steroids and found their mood, disposition, or level of self-awareness profoundly affected. You might think I'm talking "roid-rage" or the depressogenic effects of the post-cycle crash, but I'm not. I'm really interested in whether any of the brothers found themselves becoming more "in-tune," more empathic, gentler, that kind of thing, and feel they can with some confidence attribute that effect to the powerful sex hormones we inject ourselves with, perhaps more particularly to the post-cycle "crash," when circulating hormone levels are drastically suppressed. Let's face it, we're kind of "chemically emasculated" for a brief period during the crash, and that period seems to me to pose interesting opportunities for exploring and maybe altering mood, attitudes, and qualities of one's self-awareness (all of which are powerfully influenced by sex hormones), if you bother to keep your eyes (and your mind) open.

I know I'm getting kind of high-falutin' here, but I'm a gearhead bodybuilder just like you, so bear with me a minute. Reason I ask about this is I've had a range of affective responses to a recent cycle of testosterone cypionate and deca - all the way from feeling like King Kong when the test was really flowing, to feeling like somebody's menopausal mama when I was going through the crash - but the most impressive and, I hope, the most abiding effect is a subtler one, in which I feel more emotionally "in tune" than I did formerly, better able, for example, to name and express my own feelings (and intuit them accurately in others), and better able to articulate in my speech to my wife formerly difficult, "threatening" material, and better able to tolerate and "work through" expressions of that kind of material from her. (Sorry to use this jargon here, gents; it just comes with my professional territory, I'm afraid!) I've asked a couple of my trusted vet friends about this and, unfortunately, they've been unable to identify with this notion. So I may be all wet here, and I suspect that a lot of you guys have NO IDEA what the hell I'm talking about. But it's possible that some of you - maybe the older guys? the more experienced vets? the guys with more interpersonally complex lives? I dunno - might have an inkling.

Is there anybody here who could chime in on this? If not, well, back to the drawingboard. Thanks for your read, and be well, be happy, and lift heavy, brothers.

Bjaarki

" 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the Hero's name!"
Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO!

B---you and I have discussed this already and I didn't really understand. I'm not with you now, but give me 4-6 weeks and let's see where I am and if I can get an idea of what you may be talking about. These hormones seem to have such individual and unique effects on all of us, it could be you've had an experience that is just purely unique to you? Let's see what others might have to say though.
L2L

"When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life in such a manner that when you die the world cries and
you rejoice."
Indian Proverb

[archive_Ulter]

Yup it happens every time I am on. Which is all the time now. In fact, Ula was just saying the same thing 2 days ago, she was in her 4th week of deca, so it is not gender specific. We think clearer and seem to have better "vision" when it comes to problem solving and even clairvoyance to some degree. I believe it is because your brain is hitting on all cylinders and you are more at peace in your mind, which allows you operate in the Alpha brainwave frequencies more of the time and this is where your mind is much more effective. The crash you speak of has the exact opposite effect of course.

I'm currently on a high test/deca cycle and know what you're talking about. For the past few weeks I've been more open and honest with my wife. But I can't tell if that is a direct effect from the gear or if the constant desire to have sex that this test is giving me is causing me to flatter the wife and "butter her up" in order to get some.

[Windec]

Somec,

That's funny as hell! I wish that strategy worked with my wife!

Bjaarki,

I can relate to the post-cycle portion of your experience. That is always a tough time, psychologically. It seems intuitively obvious that, being an introspective individual, you would feel these effects particularly accutely.

[Slopain]

This is an aspect I would love to hear more on, I will give you the basics of my mental/emotional states as my cycle progresses:

Weeks 1-2: Usually a pretty shitty first two weeks, if I was on sus Id get the aches/flu. I might get sick (not bad but still annoying). Emotionally Im all over the place - I am more sensative and at the same time easily agitated - I guess like a manic state (not to use that term but a description) where I ride either a deep high or a low low. I really dont enjoy this time much, mentally Im right on - but b/c of the emotional shit (which I know is due to the chemicals in me - but usually dont care about: I mean if you feel a certain way then thats how you feel no matter if you know its because of the test in you or not) am often thinking about the details rather than the focus of my day/life.

weeks 3-till whenever I decide to end: Im back on point everything is perfect (like back to normal) the only thing I feal different is a higher relization of injustice - I know that sounds completely weird but if I feel I am being treated un-justly I am more likely to react back (nothing physical or beligerant of course). Its like when Im off I will just roll with the punches and it will have to be something very direct for me to affect me.

the 2 weeks after cycle - nothing really I think I slowly go from the before mentioned state back to 'normal' as I adjust back to being off (or lately bridged [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ).

- If you want 1 year of prosperity, grow grain. If you want 10 years of prosperity, grow trees. If you want 100 years of prosperity, grow people. -

Unfortunately it doesn't work too well for me either. It's been many a night that I've had to go to sleep on my back [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[archive_Mr. Nobody]

test has been linked to increased intelligence and verbal as well as spacial thinking skills:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Personally, I have much better social skills when on, I rarely experience the "rage" (A-bombs are a notable exception). Another reason to take down the ignorance wall of public perception of testosterone.

[GymRatNYC]

Maybe I'm a freak, but I don't notice those things that are mentioned here. The only significant mood change is that I know my temper is WAY shorter than when I'm off. Other than that, I feel normal. Right now, I'm very lethargic post T3/Clenbuterol cycle.

[Badkins21]

I've had more confidence in everything I do since I've started juicing...I've only done one cycle, but my mood was waaaay better when on than now, since I'm putting together my 2nd one... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Gig 'em, B$...

"Why, they ask?? Because there's nothing I fear more than being ordinary...!"

[Anabolicum Mr.]

Alot of people say that d-bol is as good as any anti-depressant, although I did not notice much change if any with the dosages I used. I haven't noticed much of what you've described, but maybe my mind and body are not as in tune as yours. On most occasions they go their separate ways. Having said that, I do sometimes notice the highs and lows that Slopain mentioned above. And as I have posted before, I often notice changes in my dreams with fluctuating hormone levels.

[archive_Caligula]

I have become overly concerned about issues. Such as if my girlfriend is especially nice to me I feel like the shit and nothing could ever separate us. Then again a few days ago she was in a bad mood and I started dwelling on every possible bad thing other than what was really bothering her..."she hates me, she finds me repulsive, she's boinking some other guy and she just doesn't know how to tell me.." Then as soon as I find out why she is upset. I'm so relieved that she doesn't hate me and it's just work that is upseting her that I could dance. I too feel like a post-menapausal woman. I really like the ups...but I really dislike the downs.

"That Which Does Not Kill You Makes You Stronger"

Curious

[Shredded]

my moods seem to be better when im on also and yea i'm more open and honest with my bride to be.i mean i really poured myself out 1 night almost made myself fell vulnerable [hard to explain}.

[archive_Bchemist]

For me, I would say that when on, I feel neutral or "normal" about 80% of the time with periods of motivation and confidence that is out of character for me. During the period of crash, my moods are magnified but not necessarily altered.

I find that my creative writing skills increase and I can communicate effortlessly orally or written when on. That is the one aspect of myself that I notice the most.

[Ace Frehley]

I must say that it really makes a difference in me. I am much more sensitive to things I normally am not. Clomid does this to me worse than anything. I turn into a sniffling wimp when I get to 100mg per day. I don't look at girls the same way either, instead of the ole roll in the hay, I'd rather take them out for a nice dinner. Weird heh?

If your gonna be the man, you gotta beat the man.

On testo I am much more cheerful, positive and loving. My wife and children notice this. HGH is also a mood elevator/stabilizer for me. Clomid does make me cry at girly movies.

[E2]

People tell me they see a huge difference in my attitude when i'm on. I'm much more patient, forgiving, caring, i just feel better about myself and about life.

Now that i'm dieting everyone has told me i'm a fucking asshole, but that's life. It's hard to be nice, when your head is killing you and all you want to do is sleep and eat carbs, damn life!!

[archive_Bjaarki]

Brothers:

Well, you guys seem pretty used to the off-the-wall topics I bring up in my threads on this board, and you continue to be willing to indulge me. Thank you, and thanks very much for your replies to this thread. I had talked this idea over with a couple of my vet friends - the idea that a cycle of anabolic steroids can induce pretty profound and, perhaps, enduring changes in disposition, interpersonal sensitivity, and emotional awareness - but, as I said in my first post, these buddies of mine were unable to relate to this.

So, I'm glad to see that a number of the brothers, including some very senior ones like Ulter, Bchemist and E2, agree that steroids have strong effects on these things I just mentioned - disposition, interpersonal sensitivity, and emotional awareness. Somec, for example, talks of being "more open and honest" with his wife, and Shredded, Ace, Got Wood, and E2 expressed similar findings; Slopain talks about being more sensitized to slight or injustice, similar in some ways to Caligula's findings; a lot of the brothers mentioned increased confidence as a result of testosterone. Ulter's remarks - "We think clearer and seem to have better 'vision' when it comes to problem solving and even clairvoyance to some degree," were particularly intriguing, and I wish he'd elaborate on them. The rest of you all made important remarks. Forgive me if, to save space, I don't extract them here. You get the main thrust of the posts by now.

Here's an important question, though, that I want you to ponder. Let's take E2's comment, that he just feels "… much more patient, forgiving, caring, I just feel better about myself and about life," when he's on a cycle of steroids. Here's the question that's crucial: Is this just an acute effect of the steroids, that will dissipate as one cycles off the gear? Or are some of these effects - greater interpersonal sensitivity, emotional awareness, etc. - permanent, abiding changes in the personality? Personally, I suspect that changes I've noticed in my emotional awareness, of being "in tune" with my wife, kids, even some of my grad students, are going to be with me for awhile. I really feel pretty profoundly changed in a positive way by this experience - I am, in fact, more impressed by the change in my emotional awareness that I attribute to a test/deca cycle (despite the objections of some of my close friends), than I am impressed by the 20 pounds of muscle I picked up.

So, to repeat, here's the question I want you to consider now: All these gear-induced changes in disposition, interpersonal sensitivity, and emotional awareness - Are these changes durable? Or do they vanish with the end of your cycle? This is the crucial question for me. Please search your minds and your experiences and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks again for posting to the thread. All others are welcome. Be well, be happy, and lift heavy, brothers.

Bjaarki

" 'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the Hero's name!"
Hrolff Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO!

[Juice Junkie]

I notice for the first couple of weeks I am on I feel an elevated mood so to speak. I am happier and generally more easy going. However after about week 3-4 this begins to disapate and I come back to normal with the exception that I have a tendency to be irritable and blow things out of proportion (things I would not normally get upset over or at least not as upset) I believe this has to do with the taper I use on my cycle peaking around week 4 in dosage. I have recently shortened my cycles to no longer than 4 weeks and I haven't had this problem as of yet. In fact I have managed to rid myself of most of the unwanted side effects this way...

Pain is weakness leaving the body.... What makes the grass grow? BLOOD!

[lurkinglifter]

"Are these changes durable?"
That's a good question. I have no doubt that I feel more in tune with the world when I'm on a cycle. But is that the result of us seeing dramatic positive results in our bodies? We invest a tremendous amount of time and effort into this lifestyle and change occurs slowly at best. So when you look in that mirror while your doing rows and notice your lats getting nice and big, that gives you a lift. When people at work start asking you, "How'd you get your arms so big so fast", it gives you a big lift. When people are constantly giving you positive reinforcement, your going to be in a pretty good mood. I certainly feel more at ease with people when they've paid me a compliment first. I don't deny that the hormones in my body are playing a big role in that feeling, but looking at 10-15 lbs. more muscle in the mirror every morning certainly doesn't hurt. I really believe that when we feel good about ourselves it helps us feel good about the people around us. And I think that plays a big part in all of this. I'm sure there is a well-being "high" from the AS. But I definately get a high from the results.

[E2]

I think the changes are lasting, if i look back, every cycle i've done has put me in a better frame of mind, perhaps it's just me maturing or perhaps it's my self esteem continually improving. I really feel that the way we look at ourselves determines the way others look at us. AS we grow and feel better about ourselves our confidence too grows, the joy of lifting a weight you never have before resonates through the rest of your life. I think it's only the idiot/uncontrolled moron who feels that steroids serve as an anger intensifier.

I feel some of the changes are lasting. Even off I find myself more understanding of others, that prior might have ticked me off. I know the anti-aging MD's say testo helps reverse "grumpy old man syndrome". Maybe its all erection based - hard to be grumpy with alot of good erections.

In the sixties many people tried hallucinatory drugs, psychedelic drugs, mind expanding drugs - as they felt they permenantly changed awareness. i remember one guy who was a rather stiff white guy and was fairly color prejudiced. On one trip he looked at a black guy and it looked like his skin was a shirt, a black shirt. And he wondered why he ever felt prejudiced against someone just because of what color shirt he wore. The mind once stretched never returns to the same size.

I don't think AS alter thinking as much as they alter emotions. Some people think "Every time such and such happens I get mad" or "This thing always irritates me" - but on testo the feelings can change. It might even be a bit of a surprise to the person that such and such happens and no feelings of irritation ensue. But self perception must then change because no longer does such and such cause isntant irritation. That realization is permenant.

I think one of the more noticeable attitude/emotion qualites that alters in me is the development of the feeling that "everything is going to be alright". I have noticed that I feel more unstoppable. A friend of mine had a lot of tragedies happen recently while he was on a D-bol and susta cycle. His wifes brother was killed in an auto accident, he got fired just a few weeks after his first child was born etc. He said typically these things would have felt very discouraging, but he just felt good like everything would turn out okay - which he attributed to the AS